Help & Questions -  End the destruction (39 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
From: C_ANGEL7/13/00 8:41 AM 
To: All  (1 of 17) 
I would like urge all visitors to this forum to please read these posts with an open heart. Learn here and join me in ending the destruction of Native peoples sacred traditions. My attempt is to clarify what exactly it is that destroys the purity of sacred traditions. We must begin to act for all future generations, so that our children and our children's children will survive and prosper with their culture and sacred traditions.
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From: Angie (Angie1980)7/13/00 3:45 PM 
To: C_ANGEL  (2 of 17) 
 186.2 in reply to 186.1 
It sounds like you are saying that they are under attack? I never grew up on or near a reservation so I might be out of line here but, who is attacking? I have been trying to keep up with this delphi war going on but, it gets to confusing and nasty! I don't feel comfortable posting a question in the middle of a war zone if you know what I mean?

From: Dume Upright - American (linipoo)7/13/00 4:25 PM 
To: Angie (Angie1980)  (3 of 17) 
 186.3 in reply to 186.2 
It gets a bit complicated,Angie.There's the normal attempt at assimilation by society in general,which is standard in a country this size.Majority standards are the basis for criticism.Then,there are the "special interest" groups.Andrew Jackson thought he was killing off the ndns when he made the reservations,yet years later,the US govt found out that many of the rez lands were sitting on massive deposits of oil/precious metals/raw gemstones/etc.Even now,many companies try to gain access to rez land (illegally or legally) in many parts of the country for strip-mining.Some have tried to poison whole tribes with by-product runoffs from legally obtained contracts for mining.This would render the rez land "uninhabitable" and the residents would be removed "for their own good".Then,there's the people who see the interest in American Indian ways,and try to capitalize on that by scamming the public with bastardized versions of sacred ceremonies,or making public ceremonies considered EXTREMELY private to those involved in the tribes they were stolen from.It's this last part that CT was mainly fighting here on the Web.I'm not sure how to make it more simplified than that.

From: Angie (Angie1980)7/13/00 4:56 PM 
To: Dume Upright - American (linipoo) unread  (4 of 17) 
 186.4 in reply to 186.3 
Thank you for taking the time to answer me. I was half afraid to ask anyone. I think I understand what youa are saying.
That after hundreds of years of living together, certain things blend just because that happens because of stuff like marriges and "majority rules" whose culture gets taught to the kids. That and what is most accepted I guess.
Nowa days politicians and companies are letting greed take over the country and that includes the reservations. They just want more and more and don't care who they crush to get it. Even if it means being sneeky and cheating.
And then there's the sacred ceramonies that are being taken. But if they are scamming the public cant they be arrested for fraud?
I didn't know that it was supposed to be private. I am sorry if I offended anyone. I was raised catholic and we talk about that stuff all the time, just about anything is open for discussion.

Since you have been so kind to answer me before, could you tell me what I am allowed to ask? I wouldnt want to have everyone jump down my throat for just asking the wrong thing. Thank you.


From: Cherokee21 DelphiPlus Member Icon7/13/00 7:07 PM 
To: Dume Upright - American (linipoo) unread  (5 of 17) 
 186.5 in reply to 186.3 
Great explanation.
I for one thank you for it.

From: Cherokee21 DelphiPlus Member Icon7/13/00 7:11 PM 
To: Angie (Angie1980)  (6 of 17) 
 186.6 in reply to 186.4 
Hi Angie:
Good to see ya again. I want above all to let you know that you should never, ever be afraid to ask what is going on. And especially not in this forum. Any questions at all, feel free to ask. Come with an honest or playful question and you get the Lini and Angel answer. Only if a person comes to cause a wee bit of a problem do they get the Cherokee You are always welcome here Angie.

From: Cherokee21 DelphiPlus Member Icon7/13/00 7:14 PM 
To: Angie (Angie1980)  (7 of 17) 
 186.7 in reply to 186.4 
Hey Angie:
I jsut read the last part of your post. You can ask anything here. And I guarantee you if anyone jumps down yer throat or bites your head off, they deal with me. Promise. Always feel comfortable here kiddo.

From: Dume Upright - American (linipoo)7/14/00 3:07 PM 
To: Angie (Angie1980)  (8 of 17) 
 186.8 in reply to 186.4 
That,too is a bit messy.The main problem here would be proving the fraud.Most folks taken in don't know any American Indians to talk to about such things,and most books are full of *crap*..not even twinkifluff stuffing.The conners either hung out with someone from a tribe to get an "in",or learned it some legitimate way.Greed kicks in somewhere,and the person(s) take what they've learned and twist it to suit their needs.Some explain it away by saying that they've divulged no "important" information to Joe Public,when what they're selling may be PART of the "important" information,and to the tribe,this is no less sacred and private than the remainder of the information.
Regarding asking,questions vary from tribe to tribe;also from person to person.Ask a general variation of your question,then if you wish to have more detail,find out who you would need to speak to.Most tribes require permission from their elders to speak regarding many subjects,and some subjects can only be spoken of between elders.Simply ask;the worst answer you can get is "no".
Edited 7/14/00 3:12:41 PM ET by LINIPOO

From: Dume Upright - American (linipoo)7/14/00 3:13 PM 
To: Cherokee21 DelphiPlus Member Icon  (9 of 17) 
 186.9 in reply to 186.5 
8D Glad I could help.There's tons more info,but that was as general as I could get.

From: C_ANGEL7/14/00 3:52 PM 
To: Dume Upright - American (linipoo) unread  (10 of 17) 
 186.10 in reply to 186.8 
I want to thank you so much for helping. Your words speak volumes, in a clear and easy to understand way.



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