LifeRing Recovery: a self-help alternative for recovery from alcoholism and other chemical dependency. Group support for abstinence from alcohol and “drugs” by empowering the sober self within you. Completely secular: no prayers, Higher Powers or Steps.
Latest Dec-11 by daisy20111
Latest Sep-30 by Elsie (Elsiek)
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Latest Dec-5 by Brian (BrianB125)
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That is an extraordinary dream, kafkaesque! Do you write down associations that come to you when waking and recalling a dream?
Interventions are always difficult, E. In part, I find they bring up over-identification and my own shame and resistance to being confronted. The kinds of memories you describe are so like my own worst 'aarggh!' moments that I still physically recoil and shudder to think of myself behaving that way. The relief is that they are in the past and getting further into the past --
I'm hoping your friends are receptive -- but, yikes. The husband may have a big problem of his own. I've stepped away and done nothing, heard months later that a friend had died in an alcoholic coma and that stays with me as a painful self-accusation, the guilt of not having tried, not having risked anything in order to help. So I am hoping she hears you. But that 'hearing you' might not be possible.
Such a quandary.
I have signed in today because I might feel better if I share. I am feeling pretty depressed again. Very low right now, although just over a week ago I was in Portugal happily lying in the shade reading novels and feeling quite content with life. Post holiday blues? Maybe. I've been preoccupied since our return from holiday, on the one hand with my daughter's 18th birthday, into which I had invested thought, time, emotion and hard cash and which did mainly go very well, notwithstanding a meltdown by daughter who was worried her party would be badly attended and rubbish, which put me through an emotional mangle. (It was a good party in the end) This combined with being very frustrated/worried about my son who hasn't worked out that stuff (jobs, industry year placements, finishing modules for uni) will not come to him and that he has to get himself out there. I have done everything in my power to help him but his efforts have been last minute, slapdash and unfruitful. I am also concerned about his frame of mind and fearful that he may be depressed and yet not realise it. Worst of all I blame myself for struggling with depression and possibly inadvertently having made him prone to it, whether genetically or environmentally, it doesn't probably make much difference which. Anyway, as someone said to me, a mother is only ever as happy as her least happy child- although I can't lay it all on that, I have always been prone to low mood.
I have got sober, I have invested time and money in therapy, and I still feel terrible about myself. I know I have better times but right now I'm so fed up with life. My therapist seems to advocate allowing myself to feel shit and not fighting it all the time. The problem with that is that I feel shit and it feels absolutely hopeless. I actually feel I can't go on like this. Not that I will drink, not that I would do any harm to myself, because I wouldn't do that to my family, but that leaves me feeling very very stuck. I suffered from depression before I had a drink problem, I drank to self-medicate. For me it's a double whammy, and depression is ultimately a far trickier animal to deal with. Stopping drinking, hard as it was, is a very clear cut thing to have achieved.
Well that's it for today. Just hoping that tomorrow is better. At least I'm not in Hong Kong or Syria.
Sorry to hear you are going through such a hard time. I've never had problems with depression, but my wife has and I know how hard it can be to deal with it. Wishing you the best.
Thank you Brian. I am just going to plod on and I'm sure things will pick up. Hope you are well xx
Oh E I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. Try not to get into self-blame as a mother or make comparisons with those in conflict-torn places: that is the trap of depressive thinking, to minimise what we are going through or to feel we're ruining others' lives, it's all our fault, it's something we should put right or not have to keep enduring, that we haven't succeeded in therapy etcetcetc. I always feel guilty as well as depressed and it is just thinking gone awry.
Right now I'm sitting with a very sick little dog -- the vet operated on her for possible bowel cancer and she had no growths, thank god, but she may have kidney problems and it is freezing cold here, so I'm trying to keep her warm and draught-free and not worry about mounting vet's bills. I'm not too depressed myself right now but I know from what you've described that there is no rhyme or reason to depression, it can cloud great holidays or arrive after the homecoming or be seasonal at the end of summer or make any family crisis worse. Your children are negotiating adulthood at a precarious time and that is enough to make anyone anxious and frustrated. (Boris effing Johnson, really???)
But you have worked hard in therapy and stayed sober, this depression will pass. It may not feel like it, but you've come through all of this stuckness before and with more insight, had a sense of growth and maturity. I don't mean to sound Pollyannerish because I know that feeling of being unable to go on and having to go on all the same. I agree that stopping drinking may be hard but is a far more definite goal -- all we have to do is not drink which is achievable, whereas not 'feeling' down and helpless or desperate for no known reason is much more nebulous and unrealisable.
Thinking of you, and I'm glad you posted.
Thanks Mary, and sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. You are so right, that negative is a hallmark of depression and it is difficult to break out of the cycle of self-blame. I have just been poddling on, trying to engage with what is in front of me, trying to be entertained rather than horrified by the shit-show of British politics, which of course I can't do a thing about right now.
Strange as it may seem in terms of timing, I have decided I want to wean myself off my anti-depressants. Extremely slowly. I have been taking citalopram for at least 12 years (must check exactly how long with the doctor) and I think I have to face the fact that they might not be working anymore. I had never been on them for more than a year before this time. Of course they might be helping but its really hard to know. A lot has changed since I went on them. I tried to halve them a few months ago and totally crashed- but was this withdrawal or the return of crashing depression? Either way, halving the dose was clearly too drastic. Have been doing some reading and it may actually be that I am now dependent on them in other ways than levelling out my mood. I am starting by alternating a whole and a half dose, and planning to do that for at least a month before considering dropping it another increment. It might sound silly but it feels good to have another health goal. I am also instigating TM at least once a day. I'm not going to impose a twice daily meditation on myself unless it feels convenient. The last time I came off SSRIs ( I was on them for post-natal depression) I found meditation was very helpful. I also do feel that medication does affect the experience of meditation- I have balked against this suggestion in the past, it has annoyed me when TM teachers/practitioners assert this, but from experience I actually know it is true, I just wasn't ready to try to come off the meds. There are other reasons to come off it and see how I am- I'm on HRT but it has not done much to help my libido, which is of course affected by SSRIs. TMI? Hahaha. Anyway, it's a long term project. I'm anticipating it will take at least 4 months and maybe 6 to taper them off without being mashed by the inevitable withdrawal symptoms.
When I get low the last thing I want to do is increase the medication. It is absolutely a vicious circle when I know how hideously difficult it is to get off them- or even to reduce the dose. I know my sister feels that if you have a problem with depression, you shouldn't feel bad about taking them. I agree. But equally SSRIs were touted as being non-addictive and it seems that this is actually not the case. I had an aunt addicted to valium in the 70s. It's in the nature of these things, and as we all know I'm no stranger to addiction.
I hope you are enjoying the cooler months, I found myself hankering after a chilly day earlier! I like all the seasons but there have been some unbearably hot days here this summer. Not as terrible as France, but France isn't far away and I fear its a sign of things to come.
I hope your dog is doing ok Mary. A dear friend of mine whose marriage has broken up and has had now to move from her nice family home sadly lost her beautiful dog a week or so ago- she is absolutely devastated. they give their whole lives to us. Dusty continues to be a bundle of fun- she got in with the chickens this morning, she doesn't attack them but likes to chase them, its to be avoided but all the squawking and flapping and rumpus did put a smile on my face.
Off now to research chicken fencing and chicken diet. Some of their shells are rather fragile and I'm trying to enrich their surroundings because I can't have them totally free ranging.
Hopefully catch you here soon. and thank you again.
Hi E, good to hear from you. My little dog Chub is much better after surgery -- no cancer or blockages -- and I'm hoping she stays healthy. Good to know Dusty is doing well and that you are now a minor-scale poultry farmer! I would love to raise chickens, had bantams when i was child, but out here in the country we have too many large snakes and rodents as well as mongeese or mongooses, genets, hawks and falcons hovering around. Yesterday we saw a huge harrier hawk in a tree at the back of the garden eating a small hare. The hawk's wingspan was scarily impressive.
My utter ignorance here -- I haven't got anything to say about medications and I hope you're reducing with good trustworthy medical support. I haven't ever really taken mood or sleep medications, very expensive and often hard to get regularly here outside of cities.
You know, if I am taking flu meds or have had a cup of coffee before my early morning meditations, I notice the difference right away. Some hyper buzz or a foggy space where I want clarity, stillness. And over the years I've found that friends using meds find it hard to stay with meditation because they miss the finer, subtler sensations that come with sustained practice and being present. The quality of awareness is impaired. I do know that I find meditation harder if I'm tired or rattled by something, my concentration goes awry -- but the meditation is still valuable, I just ask less of it, focus on breathwork and calming techniques. Any kind of meditation has its uses, soothing or grounding. As I get older, I notice the backache is more of a distraction -- backache is caused mostly by my sitting writing or inputting for long hours each day and that won't change, no matter how many walks I do or how much stretching. A friend who does advanced yoga says she is highly sensitised about body sensations and energies but can't get into her mind because she has been trained for so long to stay with the body, give all her attention to the body.
Right now all I want to do is sit with all of Toni Morrison's novels from The Bluest Eye and Sula right through Beloved and Son of Solomon, read them again. Her work has inspired and challenged me in so many ways. There are so many tributes to her all over the Internet.
Oh I envy you your chickens! Are you going to give them extra calcium? This morning I made a magnificent labneh cheese from my own homemade yoghurt and splashed on olive oil and za'atar, wished briefly I could keep goats for the milk. Billy Goat Gruff giving the hawk a beady eye.
E you do have my email address, don't you? If I can give you regular support as you reduce the dosage, let me know. And keep posting here.
Thanks Mary, nice to hear from you. I have only read two Toni Morrison novels- The Bluest Eye and Jazz, so it's nice to have some others still to read. I have been reading some Beryl Bainbridge recently, partly because I ran out of things to read on holiday and had a couple on my kindle that I had started but for some reason had not hit the spot at the time. I heard her speak many years ago when I took my A level groups to London for a day of author presentations. I was very much taken with HER- she was talking about The Birthday Boys, which I am currently reading- and loving- her novel about Scott's ill-fated Antarctic expedition. What struck me hearing her speak was her total imaginative absorption in the story. I am not sure whether she had already finished it or was still in the midst of it - and in some senses I only paid the most cursory attention to the story she was telling that day, so struck was I by her seeming to be in a world of her own, with her dark bobbed hair, chain-smoking as she spoke, with the deeply wrinkled face of a lifelong smoker. I just remembered the parallel she drew with Peter Pan's lost boys at the end of her story. And that huge preoccupation with her subject matter, that she was completely possessed with it. I purchased it along with 'An Awfully Big Adventure' when I first got my kindle. Why there seems to be a right time to read certain books I'll never totally understand, but that's how it goes with me.
The chickens are great, but we have a broody one. My daughter was looking after them at the weekend, failed to collect Saturday's eggs, and by the time we got back yesterday Peggy was all fluffed up and not budging from a clutch of eggs. I have to try to break the habit now. I haven't handled them really yet, but had to lift her off and plonk her out to get the eggs. She's back there again this morning so I have to try again and work out some more strategies.
I'm so glad Chub is better. I'm visiting my friend who lost her dog on Wednesday this week, will probably take Dusty but hope that won't make her sadder.
A week into reducing my tablets.I am aware of feeling a bit more down but nothing I can't manage as yet. Hopefully see you here again soon.
Battle to get in and the screen keeps freezing -- just to say I am reading here and hoping to be able to post soon -- if not I'll reregister as ML 4 or 5!
Is that Beryl Bainbridge novel Every Man for Himself? Loved it, my favourite Titanic novel ever and I have read most of them since A Night to Remember (published 1950s).
Love and hope the pills kick in soon --