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Hosted by PAULFROMNYS|Malachi 3:16-18/Bible talk

Based on Malachi 3:16-18 I believe the Lord will harken to us as we consider his word together.

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Adam   Bible discussions/all

Started Nov-30 by PAULFROMNYS; 2701 views.
JS5777

From: JS5777

Dec-26

I have done a very in-depth study of the words "cloth", "clothing", "robe", "vesture", "tunic" and every other conjugation or combination of words that I could find in the entire Bible.

What I have found is that most of those references not only contain an application to a physical covering, but ALSO a reference to SPIRITUAL covering.

Once a brother came to me tying to say that Adam was lost because he never offered a sacrifice for his sins as was required in the Old Testament.

My response to that brother was: "But God Himself made a sacrifice for Adam and then covered him with the skins of the very sacrifice that was made for him, which is a foreshadow of the New Testament commandment of 'be ye covered (put on) with Christ', and when God makes a sacrifice for someone, it only has to be done ONCE".

Everyone else in the Old Testament had to make sacrifices for their sins each year, but not Adam, because it was God Himself that made the sacrifice for him. The example of THAT sacrifice was the inspiration, and the spiritually inspired revelation about it was the foundation for the offering that Abel made, and which was found acceptable before God, the testimony of God's acceptance and the difference between Abel's offering and Cain's offering is what resulted in Cain becoming the first murderer and Abel the first martyr. The SAME pattern still holds out today in the true believer that walks by divine revelation at the hands of the "religious" dogmatic systems.

A close study shows that the greatest and original sin the the man Adam committed was in receiving back to himself Adam the woman after she had partaken of the forbidden fruit with someone else, even though he knew that it would cause his death.

According to Gen 5:2 the woman was ALSO called Adam in the day that they were created, and was NOT known by ANY other name until AFTER the fall in sin when she was named Eve by her husband in Gen 3:20.

It is an error to make reference to the woman by the name Eve, IF the reference is being made to her before Gen 3:20, because before then she was named (by God) Adam. THIS is the reason for my reference above to Adam the man and to Adam the woman, because the reference to her was at a time that was before Gen 3:20.

Now, how dangerous of a ground is it to try to say that Adam is lost, when it was God Himself that made a sacrifice (symbolizing Christ) and then covered him with the skins of that sacrifice (also symbolizing Christ), and that God has said to NOT call unclean that which He has cleansed?

Please be careful with carnal reasonings that do not conform to every jot and tittle of the Word of God, because to do so is to venture without the covering of the authority of the Word of God, which is very dangerous indeed.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

 

  • Edited December 26, 2021 11:29 pm  by  JS5777
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Dec-26

   Thanks James, as always, good to hear the word through you.  I can only say in reply to your sharing: How does:  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; find resolvement with Adam, and the woman taken out of him?  What I'm asking is: what should Adam have done?

 
JS5777

From: JS5777

Dec-27

Adam the man, knowingly and willingly did for Adam the woman EXACTLY the same as Christ did for the Church (those who become the Rev 19:7-9 wife of the Lamb), he gave himself for her, and by doing so, he symbolized Christ.

He also did it in faith (hope, Rom 8:20) because he knew Who was his Father and that He would not leave him (and her) in a fallen condition without doing something about it.

When God made a way back for him, because he stood in the breach for his fallen wife, the way back was also made for her, again EXACTLY the same that Christ did for us, also, just as she was called (by God) Adam, so also the Wife of the Lamb is called by His Name (Yeshua, Salvation) in Obadiah 1:21.

The recognition of the calling to be laborers together with Him (1 Cor 3:9, 2 Cor 6:1) and the fulfilling of THAT calling, is part of becoming the Wife of the Lamb and having His Name upon us (as wife).

Let us therefore be faithful to fulfill the calling, because that is part of "working out our salvation" (Philippians 2:12), NOT as in trying to earn salvation, but as in manifesting that we ARE saved and called by His Name (Yeshua, Salvation) to be a worker together with Him in bringing His salvation to others.

In THIS, the Wife of the Lamb fulfills the Gen 1:28 commandment just as the Church has always done, by bringing forth children of God by the preaching of the Word of God, not ONLY in words, but also in power and demonstration (1 Cor 2:4).

For Adam the man, just as for anyone else, is there anything better that we can do than to demonstrate the very character, nature, and purpose of Christ to a fallen world?

Remember 1Tim 2:14, in the same way, it was NOT Christ that was in a fallen condition, it was the Church that was in a fallen condition and in need of a Savior, just as Christ did for the Church, so did Adam the man for Adam the woman after she fell, and by standing in the breach for her, he brought her into the salvation that God did for him through the, one-time sacrifice and covering that was done for him.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

  • Edited December 27, 2021 12:22 am  by  JS5777
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Dec-27

   I was thinking that Adam, for his wife, ought perfectly to have said to her:  You've transgressed, I'm taking you back to GOD to see what can be done, for I am fully identified with you by love, yet I cannot, nor will not transgress GOD.  GOD will make a way for us, for we are one.  In doing this he would have thoroughly identified with her, yet not entered the transgression of himself, perhaps to save submitting, but not of himself.   

JS5777

From: JS5777

Dec-27

I believe that the way that BOTH Adam and Christ did it is the best, because the way that you mentioned, neither of them would have stood in the breach between a Holy God and a fallen wife.

It is one thing to say "I am fully identified with you by love" and it is an entirely different thing to put your life on the line to prove the identity.

A major difference between the two (Adam and Christ) is that Adam stepped outside of the Law of Reproduction to procreate in a MANNER that was for the animals and NOT for God's own kind to reproduce (by the spoken Word with creative power), Adam seeing that his wife had already fallen and was no longer in a condition to be able to bring forth after THAT manner. Christ remained under the covering of the creative power of the spoken Word of God in order to bring forth children by the Word and to bring the Wife (Church) of the Lamb back under THAT covering with and by Him, thereby restoring the original purpose of the MANNER of bringing forth that was in the original Law of Reproduction as it applies to God's own kind.

The process that BOTH s(S)ons of God used, CANNOT be improved upon, because the process was ordained by God from the foundation of the world in the Lamb that was slain (Rev 13:8).

Rev 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

To imagine anything different comes perilously close to the same vanity and arrogance of the adversary, which is something that I want to stay VERY far away from.

 

 Shalom,

JS5777

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Dec-27

 James said:  To imagine anything different comes perilously close to the same vanity and arrogance of the adversary, which is something that I want to stay VERY far away from.

 I agree, simply making a distinction between the response of the first and second Adam, as does the Word.  GOD's design is perfect, and I will never be found thinking otherwise in Christ, that is not how my question was framed at all.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Dec-28

Did you understand what I said about the Law of Reproduction?

Did you understand about the Manner of reproduction, and the reason why the woman was no longer able to fulfill the original manner of the Gen 1:28 commandment after she fell?

All of these things were known by Adam and much more.

In his pre-fall condition, Adam was the one person in the entire Bible that had the closest appearance to that of Christ, so much that many details about Adam appear in the Bible as details that symbolize Christ and the work of Christ, and to criticize Adam in his pre-fall condition result in also criticizing Christ.

In THAT original sinless condition he had no need of regeneration because he was untainted by any of the results of the fall, we must be careful to not attribute aspects of the fallen condition to Adam before the fall.

I know that it is difficult to imagine, but we have the example of Christ that we can compare Him to, and not only Adam, but also all those who will eventually receive the change in their mortal bodies.

As the scriptures say, we have many great and precious promises that God has given to us in His Word.

The level of genius that Adam had of all things in the natural world and their spiritual implications had no parallel (except for Jesus) in the entire scripture, not even Solomon, then again, Solomon was a man in a fallen condition, who eventually fell into idolatry (1 Kin 11:1-10, Neh 13:26).

There are two different kinds of wisdom, that which is purely intellectual, and that which comes from a pure heart before the Lord.

King David had the wisdom which came from a pure heart before the Lord and much of the wisdom which is found in the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and the Song of Solomon; are predated in the Psalms. Much of the wisdom that Solomon had came from His father king David.

This same concept also applies to Adam in his pre-fall condition, in that before the fall he also had a pure heart before the Lord, and the wisdom which proceeds from such.

The same will be true of all those who receive the change in their mortal bodies and reign with Christ during the Millennium.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Dec-28

   You said:   The level of genius that Adam had of all things in the natural world and their spiritual implications had no parallel (except for Jesus) in the entire scripture, not even Solomon, then again, Solomon was a man in a fallen condition, who eventually fell into idolatry 

   Where was he situated regarding Romans 8:20?  was he aware of the depth of his act?  I don't believe so, the vanity and destruction following disobedience needed to be established that the depth for our need of Jesus enthroned would be a true and eternal covenant between GOD and the souls of Adams generations.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Dec-28

Rom 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

The creation (creature, specifically that of the earth) was not willingly made subject to vanity (death).

Who was it that subjected the earth to death? It was Adam, but he did it in hope (faith).

When the woman partook of the forbidden fruit with the serpent, she stepped out from under the spiritual covering that she previously had and at that moment was in a fallen condition, and she no longer had the covering of spiritual light that she previously had, and was not even aware of it.

THEN, in THAT condition of nakedness, she came to the man, who was able to immediately see that she was uncovered of that spiritual light, and while he was still in his original condition of the image and likeness of God, he made the SAME choice as Christ did for the Church, choosing to knowingly and willingly subject himself to death, in order to stand in the breach between a Holy God and his fallen wife, he did so in faith, and his faith was not unfounded.

All of the rest of the plan of salvation is the details of How God is working out the restoration, not only of Adam (both male and female) but also the restoration of everything (ALL the earth) that Adam was given dominion over, until in the end of the process, there will be new heavens and new earth that are completely restored back to the perfect/divine order that it was originally created to be in.

The entirety of THAT process of salvation and restoration is what the faith of the man Adam was looking forward toward, and he was fully aware of all of the implications, because he was STILL in the image and likeness of God when he made the same choice for his wife as the Lamb of God made for His Wife.

1 Cor 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Who it it that knows us? It is God, and His knowledge of us is perfect. Therefore we will know perfectly, with the knowledge of God, even as He knows us, and it happens in all of its fullness when we receive the change in our mortal bodies.

Adam, the man, before the fall knew even as he was known, therefore, in that perfect knowledge, he had faith in God to a FAR greater measure than most people give him credit for, and knew that in just seven days (to God) the restoration would be complete.

And because he stood in the breach for his fallen wife, BOTH of them would be included in THAT restoration AND the salvation that is implicit in THAT restoration.

He was NOT ignorant in his original condition of the image and likeness of God, just as God Himself is not ignorant, and neither shall we be, once we receive the change in our mortal bodies.

Just as he had faith for the full scope of the plan of salvation, redemption and restoration, those who receive the change in their mortal bodies will have the SAME full scope of faith.

Remember, whatever attribute that is applied to Adam in the original, pre-fall condition (in the image and likeness of God), must be equally applied to God/Jesus and the fully restored.

Therefore, it is critical that we be careful to not apply attributes of the fallen condition in a manner that is outside of its correct time-frame, when we are considering the pre-fall and post-restoration condition, because to do so is to ALSO apply those same attributes to God.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

  • Edited December 28, 2021 12:41 pm  by  JS5777
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Dec-28

   OK James, my reservations to your perspective are quelled much.  As you say, one day soon we'll know with perfect knowing. 

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