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Based on Malachi 3:16-18 I believe the Lord will harken to us as we consider his word together.

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Do we have freewill ? Is it biblical ?   General Discussion

Started Jul-21 by davidsheep88; 172 views.
davidsheep88

From: davidsheep88

Jul-21

We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.


Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.


There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d’s people they had freewill to decide. Their decision is under the law because they did not know other religions or ways they were narrowminded but still the decision from good and evil existed. Did the errors of their fathers before them I mean the fall of Adam stopped them making decisions in their life. Israel did what they want based still of need of surviving. Killing, eating, proceating needs of humanity but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.


Romans 7:19 “For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”


Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”


Psalm 110:2 “Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew.”


From the day pagans evolved into modern world and establish their own way. Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white. Named the G-d of Israel to Zeus and change their panteon.

 

Hebrew law or mosaic law reminds people to obey but G-d has taken prophets to save and do the will of G-d in wars, missions, and choosing good and evil. They break the law in disobeying G-d, prophets like Jeremiah who chose G-d disobey tradition and his father and told Israel their errors and love for the temple forgotten the temple inside they are made of. Kick Jeremiah out of their circle rejected from society he continued, we have Moses who was ordered by God to pray to the rock and water will come out but Moses disobey and changes things and hit the rock. This angered God and told him he will not enter the promise land. Moses change what God said changed the destiny israel had to had an error while using the word of God,
we have Huldah who made mistake in prophecy which A king said he was going to die A peaceful death 2 Chronicles 34:28 and then he died by arrows and had horrible mistake 2 Chronicles 35:22-24.
also Elijah who said Acab will die in one place and Acab did not die according to what Elijah said.
This what shows that destiny changed and the lord allowed it happen he can rewind and move it but he did not becuase he has A plan of God.
Still people can change their course in life if mistake happened like those times of moses. We can change our destiny by failure of men and women who with God prophecy was shown here with Moses and Huldah. Not saying you should make the same mistaek as they did for not God's fault even if moses and huldah with words change the future of Israel and changed the destiny God adjusted to show he forgives moses and Huldah and those did happen. Destiny of your life being a poor shoesales man, poor garbageman, and what you see in your future can always change but ask God for it and do not make the mistakes Moses and Huldah did.
Is how the Greek way of thinking of liberalism was popular in the time of Jesus. Showing liberalism in such easy ways that they think it is natural in the first step of democracy and philosophy in those times of greek thinking influence paul and the hebrew people in those days.



James 2:12 “So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.”


2 Corinthians 3:17 “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”


And Greeks influence the time of jesus that people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible. Remember they were not G-d’s people but A country that stoled and wrote their intrepretation of G-d and took Jesus as an emblema that is not real.


Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Gre
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PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Jul-22

   Good post Peter.  I come down on the truth being somewhere between the 2 extremes.   It says we have power to become sons of GOD when we receive Jesus.  That power cannot be overstated IMO, but if one is so determined, he may leave off following after Jesus IMO.

In reply toRe: msg 1
davidsheep88

From: davidsheep88

Jul-22

We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it’s easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks G-d is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties.
No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth G-d is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it’s foundation is false and invented by masons.
G-d created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from G-d and his kingdom the order G-d has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe.
We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt G-d and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against G-d and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for G-d gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.
Our own system is flaw because we copy from each empire that has been establish Babylon, Rome, Greece, Britian, and Nazi Germany. Each has given its concept of right and law and all have copied each other and failed. Because again bible has establish that G-d and his system works and we with our notion of democracy and rights have copied on Rome and Babylon and they are wrong.
The most important things that because we have technology which has help us after world war 2 we think we have surpass it all and enter the digitla world and we circumvalent our promblems of family, corruption, and normal things we had before the 1950’s and think we are gods. And we want to be eternal and to be like powerful like G-d because it is what we have always been thinking because all of it is copy. When we are original and have the right system like he does everything works but our government and system does not because we are with flaws and our own boundaries aren’t the solutions they are A reminder that we will never have A perfect system thus our rights and belief in them cannot be the truth.
The freewill is revealed that there is A difference from freewill with G-d on accepting the right and wrong and succeeding in that way and from freewill from our modern concept which has failed and clashes with G-d’s law which is right and truth and unless we do not use our rights against G-d freewill is that what we make only A lie and it existence false.
Freewill from that point of view is that of society and since society has masonry in it and all foundations of masonery is babylon and Dagon it compells people to make G-d like unfair despotism but you cannot apply that to G-d for he is G-d and he is God of Gods those words are just feeble people who make laws copying the old empires and fallacy arrives in it’s policy.
There is A way government can follow G-d’s politics but that will be another day. But people and society will always collapse confronting and using thier rights and saying there is no freewill when you have to one understand things from G-d’s point of view understand what serveth the law, how the law is completed thru love and how faith as A tool helps you make A better realtionship with G-d.
When you find the truth and love in his way that G-d establish thru Jesus Christ you understand A secret way which freewill co-exist with G-d and love is what that bound unites it and makes freewill work but not under modern society but thru G-d mosaic law and know that is true freewill has been given to you but from the stance of modern world and republics establish go into error.

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Jul-23

   Yes, finally what is wrong at every point is that we do not relate properly to GOD.  There is in fact one life that ever could and did. That life is offered whosoever will.  What that life is , is the life of a true begotten Son.  A Son whose nature is holy unto His Father incorruptibly, eternally.  The nature/disposition of the Son of GOD is wrought 100% by GOD and fully given to, and manifesting all that is His Father on the basis of He manifesting in perfection the workmanship of His Father.  This is what He died to share with us = that we would be 100% the workmanship of GOD even as He.  Jesus as King and Lord forever, we as who we are in Him, same nature in loving GOD and one another, but differing glory according to the placement of GOD.

In reply toRe: msg 1
davidsheep88

From: davidsheep88

Sep-16

People the choosing right or wrong and have the freedom to choose it was something G-d gave and he gave it to Adam that is why he disobeyed if he could not he would of not of fallen. The reason freewill has and even I don't like saying the devil had freewill. So know that freedom of deciding even do the word freewill does not exist in hebrew language and have found the same question the truth is that freedom to choose and disobey G-d has existed before the bible and angels and man have it.
It does not the word or phrase freewill does not exist in the hebrew langauge it conception does not exist. But still to choose " ?????" It is what closest word to freewill of choosing is.

In reply toRe: msg 5
davidsheep88

From: davidsheep88

Sep-16

See where " ????? " supposedly hebrew words appear.

In reply toRe: msg 5
davidsheep88

From: davidsheep88

Sep-16

but free does not exit with it and it does not mean the same thing in modern times. Liberals, democracy, and tea party do not mean the same thing in old time hebrew and wouldn't mean that.

see that you have all the right to choose good or evil and everything is choices you make but like moses who should pray for the water but instead stroke it. Also Hulda who made mistake in prophecy or the kings of israel all have made mistakes and change the course of destiny but still God's plan adapts to thier errors not God for he dones not make errors. But still things willbe different if they didn't do those things but all works good at the end.

Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-16

davidsheep88 said:

see that you have all the right to choose good or evil and everything is choices you make

Man has a will. We are told to chose, not good or evil, but life or death. Good and evil belong to the same tree, the tree of death. To chose life is to chose God. Only God is good. 

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

How could we chose if we had no will? To say (free) will simply means we have power over our own will. 

I chose life!!!!

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-16

   Me too.   Maybe not in the perfection that choice involves, but with confidence He can bring me to that = Immersed in Christ.

In reply toRe: msg 7
davidsheep88

From: davidsheep88

Sep-16

Point of view of science yes it is an illusion but God can give us the power to decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_BTVN68-ZA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwaXqep-bpk

I think that the reason we will be held morally responsible for unbelief is rooted in what is written in John 3:18-21. Jhn 3:18, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Jhn 3:19, And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Jhn 3:20, For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. Jhn 3:21, But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Given a choice to either believe or not believe, one might choose not to believe because his deeds are evil and he does not want them to be exposed to the light. Or, one might choose to believe because he does the truth and he wants his deeds to be manifest that they have been wrought in God. The fact that there are reasons behind belief or unbelief does not negate moral responsibility; because those very reasons have the morality of the individual at their base. So, understanding that I may not have free will because those reasons are predetermined does not negate moral responsibility. I choose to believe or not believe based on reasons that have their basis in morality.

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