JS5777 said:

A huge and largely unresolved question is: Is the "Law of Sin and Death" the same as the Law of God?

Excellent post brother. The short answer to this question is "no". The long answer is a little complicated.

Romans 7:21-23 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

I see three laws in these verses.

1. The law of God, the commandments. v.22

2. The law of our mind, which agrees with the law of God and wants to do good. v.22

3. The law of sin which is n my members (body)

Plus, the is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

Romans 12:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

So, four laws, one outside of us, the law of God and three within us which correspond to the three parts of man.

1. The law of sin and death in our flesh.

2. The law of good in our mind, which is the leading part of our soul.

3. The law of the Spirit of life which is with our spirit. (Romans 8:16)

In our spirit we have the Spirit of life. In our flesh we have sin and death. ln between is our mind.

Romans 8:4-5 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Its complicated, because whenever our good mind determines to keep the law, it only stirs up the flesh, which in turn brings us into sin and death. This is the wretched condition of well meaning believers everywhere. What is the answer? We must learn that we have a spirit, and that the Spirit is with our spirit. When we turn in faith to our spirit, we experience the law of the Spirit of life and can walk in such a way that fulfills the law.

In my opinion brother, there are two great matters to be hashed out in Genesis 2. The tree of life which I believe corresponds to the law of the Spirit of life, and the fact that God formed a spirit in man (Zechariah 12:1)

JS5777 said:

We know that ALL of the Law of God was fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ, EVERY description of the character of God was made manifest in Him and through Him, and without Him we can do NOTHING.

Amen. Much as in Romans 7, Paul's testimony in Galatians is that when he tried to keep the law, the law killed him. 

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

So now, it is not Christ helping Paul to keep the commandments, Paul is crucified, and Christ is living in him. Paul has learned the secret, do not try and keep the law, but enjoy God as grace in his spirit and Christ lives in him.

Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 6:18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

JS5777 said:

In other words, through the power of the Life of God that was in the blood of God that purchased the church,

I say AMEN to this utterance. However, in light of our other discussions going on this forum, I understand it this way.

"the blood of God that purchased the church" I understand to be a reference to God sending His only-begotten Son into the world to be the propitiation for our sins and to redeem us to Himself through His precious blood.

"the power of the Life of God" I understand to be the resurrected Jesus, the Firstborn from the dead, who, as the Spirit is now in our spirit to be our life and life supply.

Philippians 1:19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

   Yes, the blood keeps us in the workings of GOD until we are conformed to the likeness of His Son.  If we went in perfect obedience, we would not need the blood, but none comes even close to that, we are all totally defeated except for the blood, even the foremost among us miss by a long shot.  The one and only true response is offered as a gift through a promise.

JS5777 said:

The Wife of the Lamb finds the fullness of Her rest (Shabbat) in HIM, Her Ishi, and in THAT rest, She escapes from ALL of the afflictions of the fallen condition and ALL of the results of the fall in sin (Her Shalom).

Between the wife in chapter 19,

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

and the wife in chapter 21,

Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.

there is chapter 20, with a 1000 year period of some reigning with Christ.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So there is the wife in chapter 19 that is also an army (19:14), then 1000 years of reigning with Christ, then the wife which is the New Jerusalem. How do you understand this?

   Those beheaded and finding the headship of Christ thereby are the bride formed from Adam till those raptured before the great tribulation In my current understanding.  The rest of creation follows the natural path through death, hell, and those alive at the return((sea?? but dead and after that judgment??)) Revelation 20:13 unto the final judgment of GOD into life or death. 

PAULFROMNYS said:

I'm so glad I posted these questions, I'm finding much help in hearing our Lord. 

Questions are good. We should all be full of questions and not assume that we know anything. Jesus asked many questions both of His disciples, and of the Pharisees (the religious experts).

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

22:42-45 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him, Lord, how is he his son?

According to Matthew 16, Peter answered the question because he has received revelation from the Father. According to Matthew 22, the religious experts could only half answer the question. Jesus is the son of David according to the flesh (Romans 1:4). How is it then that David, in spirit , called Him Lord? They could not answer. We should not assume that we can answer this question of all questions. We need revelation.

    Fred said:   Questions are good. We should all be full of questions and not assume that we know anything. Jesus asked many questions both of His disciples, and of the Pharisees (the religious experts).

    Paul replied:  Amen Fred, we all no in part, and it can be a real red flag when we feel not the need of one another pertaining to understanding, or any other aspect of our life going from the earthly to the heavenly.

The marriage vows that are referred to in Rev 19:7-9 happen on this side of the Great Tribulation, it is the reception, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, that happens in heaven.

While the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is happening in heaven, at the SAME time the supper of the great God (the Great Tribulation) is happening in the earth (Rev 19:17-21).

THEN, the faithful come back to the earth to reign with the Lord for the thousand years.

Then the enemy is loosed for a short time to deceive the nations and to gather the nations together against the camp of the saints (Rev 20:3, 7-10), but all of them are eventually consumed by fire (v. 9).

Then there are New Heavens and New Earth (Rev 21:1) and upon the New Heavens and the New Earth, the New Jerusalem, comes down from God out of Heaven (v. 2).

In the time period, between the burning of the nations and the New Jerusalem coming down, the Great White Throne Judgement happens, because in the New Heavens and the New Earth, there will be no more death or weeping and mourning.

All death, weeping and mourning must cease, and there be a New Heavens and New Earth in order for it to be an appropriate place for the New Jerusalem to descend upon.

The "New Jerusalem" in Revelations 21:2 is different from the "camp of the saints: and the "beloved city" in Rev 20:9, because in-between the burning of the nations in Rev 20:9 and the New Heavens and the New Earth in Rev 21:1, the Great White Throne Judgement happens in Rev 20:11.

Shalom,

JS5777

JS5777 said:

The "New Jerusalem" in Revelations 21:2 is different from the "camp of the saints: and the "beloved city" in Rev 20:9,

It is rare to find anyone who does not regard the New Jerusalem as physical structure, even though Revelation 1:1 says that the revelation is "made known by signs." The golden lampstands are obviously not literal or physical, the four horses are obviously not literal or physical, the woman clothed with the sun is obviously not literal, but the New Jerusalem is. If I point out, "no, it is a sign, it signifies the bride of the Lamb, this is the church isn its consummated form, they cannot except it.

Why? Because their head os already full of myths about going to heaven. Try and find a book on the New Jerusalem, the greatest and consummate sign in the Holy Scriptures. I doubt you can find one. What you will find are books about people who have died and "gone to heaven" full of fanciful details which are nowhere in the Bible. This is the state of the Christian religion.