Christ4Us said:

The irony is how believers that all speak the same language, are missing Paul's exhortation to seek the gift of prophesy over tongues when zealous for spiritual gifts.

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

The irony from my point of view is that you do not have much to say about prophesying, but are all about forbidding to speak with tongues.

I do not speak with tongues, so it is nothing personal. Do you covet to prophesy? If so, how do you define prophesying? I agree with you that 1 Corinthians 14 is a chapter fully elevating prophesying as something to be pursued, especially in church meetings. How does that look in the place that you meet? Do all prophesy?

1 Corinthians 14:23a-24 If therfore the whole church be come together into one place...and all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all.

Fred (fnorthrup) said:

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. The irony from my point of view is that you do not have much to say about prophesying, but are all about forbidding to speak with tongues.

It has been a while since our last discussion and so you may have forgotten that I was against tongues for private use as I do not believe that is the real God's gift of tongues but a pagan supernatural tongue which is gibberish nonsense for why it comes with no interpretation because that tongue is not being manifested by the Holy Spirit.

1 John 4:1-6 has the apostle John warning believers not to believe every spirit but test them meaning what?  Believers will be targeted by seducing spirits to lure them away from focusing on the Son in worship, fellowship, and prayer as these spirits of the antichrist can bring tongues that is how the world speaks in that supernatural tongue as gibberish nonsense.

Fred (fnorthrup) said:

I do not speak with tongues, so it is nothing personal. Do you covet to prophesy? If so, how do you define prophesying? I agree with you that 1 Corinthians 14 is a chapter fully elevating prophesying as something to be pursued, especially in church meetings. How does that look in the place that you meet? Do all prophesy? 1 Corinthians 14:23a-24 If therfore the whole church be come together into one place...and all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all.

Prophesy is the same as edification by the understood word of God and so with the written scripture available, our edification can come from scripture.  Some argue that the manifestations of the Spirit was done away when the perfect came, hence the written scripture, but I do not believe that.

When Paul exhorted prophesy over tongues with interpretation, it is for our ready edification and since that can be done by the written scripture, then I would believe such manifestations in that regard is no longer necessary.  Now I should point out that even prophesy was not to be done alone as the practice was that two or three prophesy while another judge it, but when it comes to written scripture, there is no need to discern it other than when scripture that has originated from Alexandria is circumspect as being where poetic licensing and Gnosticism has been known to exist from that area whereas the documents origin from Antioch where the disciples studied the word for a year would lead credence to those who love Him would keep His words there.

This is why I rely on the KJV, but even then we need Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd because it is not a perfect Bible but unlike modern Bible that changes the message and thus the meat of His words to discern good & evil, thus winding up supporting false teachings by taking it out of context even though there are other scriptures opposing it in that modern bible version, doubt in God's words have been sown, but not so with the KJV in following Jesus by abiding in the meat of His actual words in discerning good & evil where there is no doubt as confirmed by the Spirit in me.

So I am not against the real God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people, which WILL come with interpretation in the assembly,  but I am against any who claim His gift can "also" be for private use.  No, it is not and because there is another pagan's supernatural tongue in the world that is gibberish nonsense is why the real God's gift of tongues can never be for private use or otherwise, there can be no discernment regarding tongues and there can be no discerning the spirits that brings them either for how many have gone astray in these latter days by.

Christ4Us said:

Prophesy is the same as edification by the understood word of God and so with the written scripture available, our edification can come from scripture. 

So prophesy by definition must be verbal communication. Edification means building up. An edifice is a building, and to "edify" is to build up. 

When the apostle Paul wrote this, there was no King James 1611 version, so whatever he means by prophesying, it has absolutely nothing to do with an English version which would not exist for another 1550 years.

Their written Scripture was the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint. This was the Hebrew Scriptures translated into the common tongue, Greek. And yet, the Scriptures contained God's breath. They breathed God in through the Scriptures, then spoke what they had received and enjoyed of God through the Holy Scriptures. This is my understanding of prophesying. In short, eat the Word, digest and live out the Word, then speak the Word into others. This is to build them up, with God. Everyone should earnestly desire to do this.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

Ezekiel 3:2, 4  So I opened my mouth--, and He caused me to eat the scroll. And He said to me, son of man, go, get thee into the house of Israel, and speak with My words unto them.

1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue builds up himself, but he that prophesies builds up the church.

Fred (fnorthrup) said:

Their written Scripture was the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint. This was the Hebrew Scriptures translated into the common tongue, Greek. And yet, the Scriptures contained God's breath. They breathed God in through the Scriptures, then spoke what they had received and enjoyed of God through the Holy Scriptures. This is my understanding of prophesying. In short, eat the Word, digest and live out the Word, then speak the Word into others. This is to build them up, with God. Everyone should earnestly desire to do this.

I only refer to the KJV for English believers today for the written scripture as kept by those who loved Him and His words as the source documents for the KJV originated from Antioch where His disciples studied for a year .

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Because 1 John 5:7 about the 3 Witnesses in Heaven being originally scripture is why we have evidence for us to discern which source documents from where that Bible was derived from, loved Him to keep His words from those that did not.  https://www.chick.com/information/article?id=is-i-john-5:7-missing-from-older-manuscripts

I have no problem with you referring to the King James version brother. Praise the Lord that you have a heart for the Word. It is the incorruptible seed through which we are born of God.(1 Peter 1:23) God's word is living and operative and sharper than a two edged sword, even dividing the soul and spirit (Hebrews 4:12). In the beginning was the Word...and the Word is God. (John 1:1)

Grace to you

Christ4Us said:

Because 1 John 5:7 about the 3 Witnesses in Heaven

If you wish to refer to Jack Chick as an authority regarding the truth, I am fine with that also. As for the controversy regarding 1 John 5:7 there are many easily accessible articles online which explain in great detail why it is controversial, and why many, or most English versions do not contain the "The Trinitarian formula (known as the Comma Johanneum)"

Here is an example: https://bible.org/article/textual-problem-1-john-57-8

Christ4Us said:

Because 1 John 5:7 about the 3 Witnesses in Heaven

I had much discussion with a co-worker regarding this verse. His position was that Satan had this verse removed from modern versions because that diluted the truth concerning the Trinity in the Scriptures. He also was a Jack Chick fan.

I had been studying the Bible for many years and could quote from memory a list of verses which plainly refer to the Triune God, so this argument did not work for me.

Ephesians 2:18 For through Him (the Son) we both have access by one Spirit (the Holy Spirit) unto the Father.

2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God (the Father) and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen.

In reality, the Triune God is revealed in the Scriptures from end to end, both directly and by signs. Here is the Triune God revealed in signs:

Revelation 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life (the Holy Spirit) clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God (the Father) and the Lamb (the Son.)

We can interpret the river as the Spirit because John 7:38-39 says the river of living water is the Spirit.

Praise the Lord for the Bible! Praise the Lord for the life, the light, the life-supply contained in this Book!!!!

Fred (fnorthrup) said:

If you wish to refer to Jack Chick as an authority regarding the truth, I am fine with that also.

The web site is showing an excerpt from a book by David W Daniels and so not really from Jack Chick himself.  Chick sells the book at his site but he is not the author of it.

As for Jack Chick, whether or not he still believes this way, but he had stated that all Catholics are going to hell which is something I do not believe.  If a Catholic believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God has raised Him from the dead, they are saved even though they are engaging in the dead works of Catholicism as if that alone does not save them as if God gives more grace by having them do works like be a member of the Catholic Church & do the sacraments within her to obtain salvation by.  Catholics are laboring in unbelief and although some Catholics will admit that they believe they are saved, by remaining in the Catholic Church, no one can see their faith in Jesus Christ and will just think they are staying within the church just in case they are wrong.

Catholics that believe they are saved, should leave the Catholic Church for God the Father to receive them as vessels unto honor in His House if they wish to avoid the risk of being left behind at the rapture event.  One would think the other offense to God should be obvious when the RCC is being ecumenical in having an agreement with other world's religions.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Then there is relying on Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd & friend to help them to follow Him daily by looking to Him to enable them to lay aside every weight & sin daily ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ) in order to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son ( 1 John 1:3-9 ).  Running that race is all about discipleship in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ.

Fred (fnorthrup) said:

As for the controversy regarding 1 John 5:7 there are many easily accessible articles online which explain in great detail why it is controversial, and why many, or most English versions do not contain the "The Trinitarian formula (known as the Comma Johanneum)" Here is an example: https://bible.org/article/textual-problem-1-john-57-8

From that link you provided;

"The reading seems to have arisen in a fourth century Latin homily in which the text was allegorized to refer to members of the Trinity.  From there, it made its way into copies of the Latin Vulgate, the text used by the Roman Catholic Church."  end of quote

From the Chick site;  https://www.chick.com/information/article?id=is-i-john-5:7-missing-from-older-manuscripts  There are extrabiblical sources confirming 1 John 5:7 as originally scripture going further back than the fourth century.

Now Jesus gave us a warning from the Father in John 14:23-24 that those who do not love Him, will not keep His words and the words of His disciples in John 15:20 and so I am going with 1 John 5:7 regarding the 3 Witnesses because it aligns with 1 John 5:9 for how and why God's witness is greater then the witness of men because there are 3 Witnesses within that One God.  Since John had written John  8:17 for how the witnesses of two men is true, then how can the singular Witness of the One God be greater than the witnesses of men when God would need more than One Witness to establish a testimony as true?  Therefore as God requires of men to establish a true witness and a testimony, is how God does this too in following His word as the Triune God.

Fred (fnorthrup) said:

I had much discussion with a co-worker regarding this verse. His position was that Satan had this verse removed from modern versions because that diluted the truth concerning the Trinity in the Scriptures. He also was a Jack Chick fan.

I am not really a fan of Jack Chick.  We are to prove everything with the Lord Jesus Christ, regardless of how someone may expose the works of darkness but is wrong about condemning them as if they were never saved or were never believers before the time comes.  By His grace & by His help, we are called to expose the works of darkness in calling saved believers to depart from them.

We really should not be a fan of anyone because they are subject to error as well, which is why Jesus Christ has to be your personal Good Shepherd to help you to follow Him & abide in His words.

1 Corinthians 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

https://www.chick.com/information/article?id=is-i-john-5:7-missing-from-older-manuscripts  <-----  Although this site offers explanation as to why the original 1 John 5:7 was removed to combat some heresy, I believe His words from the Father that they did not loved Him enough to keep His words nor the words of His disciples, especially John.  John 14:23-24 & 15:20

You have to wonder why Jesus shared that warning from the Father unless to prophesy that we will need His help to discern which source documents was kept by those who loved Him to keep His words.  Indeed, the argument that the oldest manuscripts are the best manuscripts, thinking they contain the truth in His words from the earliest times, should be acknowledged that because they were old,  they were not being used and worn out sooner for why copies would be needed and so they were not loving Him nor His words unlike the ones from Antioch.

Indeed, Gnosticism means secret or hidden knowledge as I suspect that they were the ones using tongues for private use as if that is how they are edified and so the written scriptures goes to the wayside for their daily self edification.  No mystery there for why their manuscripts were the oldest manuscripts.   This is what happens when believers take 1 Corinthians 14:4 out of context of that entire chapter when Paul says tongues are unfruitful to the tongue speaker until it is interpreted by another to understand that tongue to be truly edified by that tongue which is why he was comparing tongues against prophesy for why prophesy is better in verse 4.  Tongues can edify when it is interpreted whereas prophesy is understood right away.