JS5777 said:

I would take that response as meaning that you think that BOTH God AND Moses authored the Torah.

I'm not trying to be cute brother.

All Scripture is God -breathed and therefore profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Therefore the Torah is of God and out of God.

The man who produced the first 5 books of the Bible and whose name is on them is Moses. Therefore they are called by Luke, "Moses." 

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and -- all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

I think we are still discussing what Paul meant by "the law?" Because he uses "the law" and "the commandment" interchangeably in Romans 7, I do believe that is what he meant: the commandments, with the attending ordinances and statutes. 

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

What do you think Paul meant by "all the law"

v. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Always this is presented as mutually exclusive. If we are under the law, we are in the flesh. If we walk by the Spirit, we are not under the law. There is no such thing in the Bible as Jesus helping us keep the law.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended (sum up, gather into one) in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

What do you think Paul means by "and if there be any other commandment?" I believe, based on so many verses, that he was definitely talking about the commandments, all of them.

Fred said: "I'm not trying to be cute brother."

I am not trying to be cute either, I had a very specific reason, which DOES relate to the topic of this thread, and would appreciate a direct answer, instead of an avoidance of the question.

How do you determine the difference between the portions of the Torah that were authored by God, and those portions which were authored by Moses?

Shalom,

JS5777

JS5777 said:

How do you determine the difference between the portions of the Torah that were authored by God, and those portions which were authored by Moses?

I am not avoiding your question at all. I am not sure what you are asking. According to the Scriptures " God spoke to the fathers by the prophets." Hebrews 1:1-2

If you asked me, who spoke, God or the prophets? I would say "God spoke to the fathers by the prophets." God's speaking was in the prophets speaking and the prophets speaking was God's speaking. The answer would be "yes."

But your question is "who authored." I'm not even sure what you mean. I guess one answer is that the commandments were written by the finger of God in a stone, then He authored that part. Since Moses presumably wrote the first 5 books, excluding what God wrote with His finger, then Moses wrote that part.

JS5777 said:

Sadly, there are some people that think that ANY fulfilling of ANY part of the Law of God has been completely eliminated. But the Law of God describes how His character behaves, and if THAT is eliminated... then the result is that we can behave in just any way that the flesh in its fallen condition imagines to do, and STILL claim salvation.

I do not think Paul was one of those people, and neither am I. Paul makes abundantly clear that there is nothing wrong with the law, and the law has not gone anywhere. He also makes abundantly clear that we are in no way under the law. 

Because we are begotten of God to be sons of God, and have the divine nature, the law no longer relates to us. However, this does not mean that there is not a fulfillment of the righteous requirement of the law. We who walk by the Spirit do fulfill the requirement of the law of God.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Are you saying that the pneuma/ruach/Spirit was merged with the spirit of the prophets?

Or is it more accurate to say that the Word was dictated to the prophets, whom acted more as scribes, and that there was NO mixture of the fallen spirit of man into the writing of the Word of God?

This is an important detail to be resolved.

Shalom,

JS5777

JS5777 said:

Are you saying that the pneuma/ruach/Spirit was merged with the spirit of the prophets?

No. I do not believe this was possible before Jesus was raised from the dead. Now, he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. I do not say merged, but mingled, because that term is used in Leviticus and I believe describes our union with the Spirit, like grafting. The life of the branch is joined to and mingled with the life of the tree.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

That one spirit is our mingled spirit, mingled with the Holy Spirit. The law of the Spirit of life involves our spirit and God's Spirit as one spirit. That is the Spirit we walk by and live by.

The Spirit of God came upon the prophets and they spoke, so God was in their speaking and their speaking, or writing became the word of God, but this is not the same as the word becoming flesh. In the New Testament, beginning with Christ, God enters into man, mingles with man to be one with man. 

That is why I have something of an issue with people who stand and say "Thus saith the Lord." This is in the principle of the Old Testament. Paul, or Peter did not say "Thus saith the Lord", they just spoke, and their speaking was full of life. This is the New Testament way. God manifested in the flesh.

JS5777 said:

Or is it more accurate to say that the Word was dictated to the prophets, whom acted more as scribes, and that there was NO mixture of the fallen spirit of man into the writing of the Word of God?

We can say for sure that God spoke to the fathers by the prophets. Because they were unregenerate, their spirit had nothing to do with this process. 

We can also say that holy men spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit was definitely involved. 

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

John 7:37  In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
John 7:38  He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 7:39  (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Until the death, burial, resurrection, ascension and indwelling on the day of Pentecost the Holy Ghost was not yet given.

Therefore there was an anointing that came upon the Prophets of the Old Testament, and that anointing could come and go, and we still have access to the Holy Spirit today in that SAME way.

However, SINCE the death, burial, resurrection, ascension and indwelling on the day of Pentecost, the Holy Ghost has been given in a way that it does not have to EVER leave.

John 14:17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 15:4  Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

This is the new and Living way that has been opened for us.

Heb 10:19  Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20  By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Shalom,

JS5777

JS5777 said:

John 7:39  (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Excellent post. This is a key verse with regard to the Spirit. If you look closely, the word "given" is in italics in the KJV. This means it is not in the original manuscript but is supplied by the translators.

What the verse says literally is "...the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus was not yet glorified. 

The word "given" is the translators adding their interpretation.

According to Luke 24:26, Jesus' resurrection was His glorification.

Like 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

In resurrection He became a life-giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45b). Now, the Lord is the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17) This Spirit, the Spirit of the resurrected, glorified Jesus was "not yet" in John 7:39 because Jesus had not yet been resurrected from the dead. The Spirit that was "not yet" is the compound Spirit, typified by the compound ointment in Exodus 30. This is the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:21 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

and the Spirit of God's Son

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

The "compounding" is God passing through incarnation, human living, death, and resurrection. Today, this compound Spirit is with our spirit. 

JS5777 said:

This is the new and Living way that has been opened for us. Heb 10:19  Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, Heb 10:20  By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Amen!!!! This is the new and living way!!!