PAULFROMNYS

Bible talk

Hosted by PAULFROMNYS

Based on Malachi 3:16-18 I believe the Lord will harken to us as we consider his word together.

  • 1725
    MEMBERS
  • 53506
    MESSAGES
  • 0
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

Romans 7   New Testament

Started Sep-24 by PAULFROMNYS; 465 views.
In reply toRe: msg 2
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-24

JS5777 said:

Romans chapter seven is a set-up for chapter eight.

Amen James. Maybe you could say that Romans 8 is the center of the New Testament, especially verse 16, the Spirit with our spirit.

Paul identified 4 laws, 3 inside of us which correspond to the three parts of man, and one outside of us, the law of God.

1. The law of sin and death. This is in our flesh.

Romans 7:18a For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:

Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

2. The law of good in our mind (soul) which agrees that the law is good.

Romans 7:16 I consent unto the law that it is good.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Romans 7:23 warring against the law of my mind,

3. The law of the Spirit of life, which is the Spirit with our spirit, 

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

4. The law of God, the Commandment, ordinances and statutes. 

When a Christian makes up his mind that now he wants to be good and keep the law, immediately there is another, stronger, overpowering law, the law of sin and death in our members, that over rules and defeats the the well intending believer. The tree of death is called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Trying to defeat evil in our being with our good mind is like trying to cast our Satan with Satan. Good and evil belong to the same tree. I admit it is not easy to read Romans 7 and see this, but it is there. God never intended that we, with our good mind would attempt to keep the law. God's intention from Genesis 2, is that we would receive the Spirit and walk by Him.

Romans 6:14 says that sin will not have dominion over us, because we are not under law, but under grace. Grace is with our spirit. Grace is God supplying us with Christ as the Spirit of life so that we may live a life without sin, thusly fulfilling the righteous requirement of the law.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Galatians 6:18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

In reply toRe: msg 2
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-24

JS5777 said:

The Law of the Spirit sets us free from the law of sin and death.

I would like to offer a little more. 

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

This verse says that sin shall not rule over us because we are not under law. Then in Romans 7, Paul explains exactly why believers continually find themselves under the dominion of sin. Not too long ago, the president of the Evangelical Association of America was arrested in a gay bath house on meth. How can this be?

It is because, according to Paul, in their good mind, they agree to keep the law of God. When this happens, another law is activated, the law of sin and death which is in our members. This is the unfortunate experience of far too many of the Lord's precious people, even Christian leaders. The good that they determine to do, they cannot do, but find that there is evil in them.

Paul says that if we try to keep the law, this will frustrate, nullify, get rid of the grace of God. This is a serious matter. Grace is God in Christ as the Spirit to be a law, the law of life in our spirit. When we enjoy and experience Him as grace, He is everything and He does everything. It is no longer I, but Christ living.

Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Frustrate: 114. ?θετ?ω athete´o¯;  To displace, to abrogate, abolish, get rid of. In the NT:

In reply toRe: msg 2
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-26

   Yes, we need deeper understanding of what the law of sin and death implies.  To me currently it is that insistence upon performance originating from men. This contained in the question Paul presented to the Galatians.  Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

JS5777

From: JS5777

Sep-26

Sadly, there are some people that cannot understand how that something can be done through our flesh, but that it can be done by the power of the Life of God dwelling within us.

NOT everything that is done through the flesh is necessarily done BY the flesh alone and without God, to conclude otherwise is essentially denying the power of God to be able to change and transform us, and thereby would attribute greater power to the fallen condition than to the power of God.

But we know that the power of God is far greater than any and all of the results of the fall in sin and the effects that it has upon our mortal bodies, to conclude anything else, is to deny the power of God and remain under bondage to the fallen condition.

It all comes down to the very simple question.

Do we really believe in the power of God to transform us into His image and likeness, or not?

Will we remain in the disobedience that is the product of the fall in sin, or will we move into the obedience of the Spirit of God?

Because obedience is the only way to escape the penalty that comes upon the disobedient.

But WHOSE obedience? That of God dwelling within us, or that which we vainly imagine that we can produce without Him?

 

Shalom,

JS5777

  • Edited September 26, 2022 11:28 am  by  JS5777
In reply toRe: msg 7
PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-26

   James:   It all comes down to the very simple question.

Do we really believe in the power of God to transform us into His image and likeness, or not?

   Paul:   Amen, it's like saying this opposing power is greater!!!   Who are we?  =  who GOD says we are, not one iota more or less.

 

In reply toRe: msg 7
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-26

JS5777 said:

NOT everything that is done through the flesh is necessarily done BY the flesh alone and without God, to conclude otherwise is essentially denying the power of God to be able to change and transform us, and thereby would attribute greater power to the fallen condition than to the power of God.

Paul did say "the life that I now live in the flesh" (Galatians 2:20) but I would not say "everything that is done through the flesh." Galatians 2:20 at least proves that we are never without the flesh in this life. But we are to learn not to walk according to the flesh, in which dwells the law of sin and death, but to walk according to the Spirit. 

Do you know that the Lord is the Spirit? (2 Corinthians 3:17). Although this verse is in everyone's Bible, many Christians argue that the Lord is not the Spirit. Do you know that the Lord Jesus, who is the Spirit is in and with our spirit(Romans 8:16)? How can we possibly walk by the Spirit if we are full of religious concepts and not faith which comes through hearing the word?

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Sep-26

I have presented before, and will present yet again.

There was a pattern that was established by God in His Word that the life of the flesh is the blood, and that the life is in the blood of all manner of life, even animals.

THAT life which was in the blood of the clean animals was without the knowledge of sin, it was innocent of sin.

But animals were NOT created in the image and likeness of God, ONLY man was created in the image and likeness of God.

Therefore, there is a basic incompatibility between the life that is in animals and the life that is in man.

It is for this reason that the life that was in the Old Testament sacrificial animals COULD NOT come upon the human beings and impart to man the same innocence of sin that was in the animal.

It is for this reason that THOSE sacrifices COULD NOT do a complete work to purge sinfulness from man, it ONLY could cover the sins and push them forward until a perfect sacrifice could come, which was BOTH entirely without sin and which had a Life in it that was compatible with man.

The Lord Jesus Christ is/was THAT sacrifice.

When His blood was shed upon the cross, the Life that was in the blood also came forth.

THAT Life is what came upon and into the 120 on the day of Pentecost, and it DID impart His own innocence of sin to every one of those that received it, and STILL does.

THIS is how the second Adam was made a Life-giving Spirit, what we call the Holy Spirit.

THAT immaculate Life can and does change and transform our life from the fallen condition, and conformes it to Himself anew.

There IS a difference between our willingness and our assistance.

We must be willing to allow Him to have absolute Lordship over our lives to conform us to Himself, BUT, other than our willingness, He DOES NOT need ANY assistance from us to do the work, because ALL such assistance would still come from the fallen form and NOT from the finished form that is entirely conformed to Him.

It is for THIS reason that God DOES NOT "help us" in the sense of our contributing in the details of His work in us, He "helps us" by entirely doing for us that which is impossible for us to do for ourselves, or to even contribute, from the fallen condition, any detail toward being completely conformed to Him. Again, He ONLY needs our willingness to allow Him to do the COMPLETE work of conforming us to Himself.

The Lord IS THAT Spirit that gives everlasting Life, THE Tree of Life.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

  • Edited September 26, 2022 5:17 pm  by  JS5777
Fred (fnorthrup)

From: Fred (fnorthrup)

Sep-26

JS5777 said:

I have presented before, and will present yet again.

Sorry to be so tedious. I honestly believe that the truth bears repeating again and again until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith. That will be a glorious day. 

Ephesians 4:13 Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, (Recovery Version)

"THAT life which was in the blood"

"THE Tree of Life."

The problem with the English word "life" is that it is generic, and readers of the Bible assign whatever meaning they wish to it. In Greek, distinct words are used. When denoting the life that is from God, and is God, the eternal uncreated life, the word zoe is used. When denoting the natural life, whether animal or human, the word psuche, or soul is used.

Jesus gave up His psuche, his natural life for the sheep that they might have abundant zoe, the divine uncreated life, the life of God.

Our whole discussion comes down to this, will we exercise the psuche, the natural life, the natural man, the center of which is the mind to keep the law, which activates the flesh with the law of sin and death, or will we exercise the spirit, where the Spirit of Jesus is and activate the law of the Spirit of zoe. 

The mind set on the spirit is zoe.

Romans 8:6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call -- heaven and -- earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

I chose life.

JS5777

From: JS5777

Sep-27

You may have noticed that I use a distinction between "life" as of animals and man, and when I refer to "Life" as in the Life of God and eternal Life that can come into man.

I try to be faithful to make certain of the difference.

You may want to make a quick pass through some of my previous postings to pay attention to this very detail.

 

Shalom,

JS5777

PAULFROMNYS

From: PAULFROMNYS

Sep-27

   Fred:   Sorry to be so tedious. I honestly believe that the truth bears repeating again and again until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith. That will be a glorious day. 

   Paul:   Faithfulness is such a huge thing IMO. We, being vessels of extreme unending mercy have a deep and abiding unction to bear with one another.  When the eternal kingdom is entered, it will be glorious indeed, even above all we can imagine, and I've exercised imagining alot  :)    Our bearing with one another has a foundational need = a genuine desire at both ends.   GOD receives us in that reality, it is the cornerstone of any relationship.  How deep the relationship goes is another question for sure. 

TOP