Fred (fnorthrup) said:

I like Paul's attitude in 1 Corinthians 14. He is obviously burdened for the building up of the church. (v.4) He is encouraging the saints to be balanced in the matter of speaking with tongues. 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. In the Old Testament it says that God would speak to His people with other tongues. (Isaiah 28:11-12) Point being, it's in the Bible.

The actual point here is that God's gift of tongues is of other men's lips to speak unto the people; not for private use or for the Holy Spirit to use in speaking back to God.

Fred (fnorthrup) said:

Paul says he speaks in tongues more than anyone (v.18) and that he wished that everyone spoke with tongues (v.5).

1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Do note the emphasis as veering away from tongues.  Paul began that chapter in that way in regards to believers being zealous for spiritual gifts.

1 Corinthians 14:Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

Paul was using a contrast in verse 4 but he was not insinuating that tongues is a stand alone gift when thru out that chapter the tongue is unfruitful to the tongue speaker until it is interpreted by another.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

This is where modern day tongue speakers and Gnostics err in thinking one can be self edified by tongues, ignoring the bottom line about tongues in 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

Fred (fnorthrup) said:

He also said not to forbid to speak with tongues. (v.39)

Paul set up the order of practice for the assembly to follow.

1 Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

The same would be said for using tongues for private use.

24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. 

Again Paul exhorted prophesy to seek after over tongues.

26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 

Now Paul sets the order for edifying in the church.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Here above is Paul forbidding someone to speak.  Why?  When you have a practice of speaking in tongues one by one by two or three tongue speakers and then have one interpret, the assembly may get a foreign visitor rising up and speaking out of turn.  This is why there is no interpretation coming because the one speaking understands what he is saying as one that speaks to himself as God does too as one speaking to God.  This is not saying the person is a nutso in speaking to himself but that what he is saying is not being manifested by the Holy Spirit for why he is commanded to be silent for he understand s what he is saying as God does too and thus he is not speaking TO God any more than 1 Corinthians 14:2 of that tongue speaker speaking To God but that God understands what is being said even though the tongue speaker does not as it is a mystery to that speaker.

29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

So I agree no one is to forbid speaking in tongues, but if it does not come with interpretation, they are to be silent because they are not speaking with God's gift of tongues.

That said, there is a pagan supernatural tongue in the world that is just gibberish nonsense as found in the occult as confirmed by scripture in Isaiah 8:19.  Idolatries was practiced in Rome and here is a link to one such reference;  https://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception-tongues_ecstatic-language_pagan#!

This Christian site confirms other sources where tongues of gibberish nonsense are being used currently in the world;  https://www.gotquestions.org/glossolalia.html

Now for God to call those sinners away from those spirits and that kind of tongues is why believers and churches should forbid that kind of tongue which is gibberish nonsense.  How do wayward  believers get around this?  They claim because it comes without interpretation, that it is for private use.  Anything that comes without interpretation should be made to be silent and even shunned by that tongue speaker himself/ herself.

I believe in the real God's gift of tongues of being of other men's lips to speak unto the people but believers today are not testing the spirits nor the tongues they bring because they want it to be of God.  One church believed they had God's gift of tongues with interpretation and so they hired a linguist to record everything and translated it for them, but instead, they found that it was all gibberish nonsense.  How can this be with interpretation?  Joyce Meyers testified that this is how she interprets tongues by getting the gist or feel of what is being said.  So one can imagine what the interpreters were doing in that church that had thought they had the actual gifts of tongues with interpretation.

The irony is how believers that all speak the same language, are missing Paul's exhortation to seek the gift of prophesy over tongues when zealous for spiritual gifts.

Christ4Us said:

The irony is how believers that all speak the same language, are missing Paul's exhortation to seek the gift of prophesy over tongues when zealous for spiritual gifts.

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

The irony from my point of view is that you do not have much to say about prophesying, but are all about forbidding to speak with tongues.

I do not speak with tongues, so it is nothing personal. Do you covet to prophesy? If so, how do you define prophesying? I agree with you that 1 Corinthians 14 is a chapter fully elevating prophesying as something to be pursued, especially in church meetings. How does that look in the place that you meet? Do all prophesy?

1 Corinthians 14:23a-24 If therfore the whole church be come together into one place...and all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all.

Fred (fnorthrup) said:

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. The irony from my point of view is that you do not have much to say about prophesying, but are all about forbidding to speak with tongues.

It has been a while since our last discussion and so you may have forgotten that I was against tongues for private use as I do not believe that is the real God's gift of tongues but a pagan supernatural tongue which is gibberish nonsense for why it comes with no interpretation because that tongue is not being manifested by the Holy Spirit.

1 John 4:1-6 has the apostle John warning believers not to believe every spirit but test them meaning what?  Believers will be targeted by seducing spirits to lure them away from focusing on the Son in worship, fellowship, and prayer as these spirits of the antichrist can bring tongues that is how the world speaks in that supernatural tongue as gibberish nonsense.

Fred (fnorthrup) said:

I do not speak with tongues, so it is nothing personal. Do you covet to prophesy? If so, how do you define prophesying? I agree with you that 1 Corinthians 14 is a chapter fully elevating prophesying as something to be pursued, especially in church meetings. How does that look in the place that you meet? Do all prophesy? 1 Corinthians 14:23a-24 If therfore the whole church be come together into one place...and all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all.

Prophesy is the same as edification by the understood word of God and so with the written scripture available, our edification can come from scripture.  Some argue that the manifestations of the Spirit was done away when the perfect came, hence the written scripture, but I do not believe that.

When Paul exhorted prophesy over tongues with interpretation, it is for our ready edification and since that can be done by the written scripture, then I would believe such manifestations in that regard is no longer necessary.  Now I should point out that even prophesy was not to be done alone as the practice was that two or three prophesy while another judge it, but when it comes to written scripture, there is no need to discern it other than when scripture that has originated from Alexandria is circumspect as being where poetic licensing and Gnosticism has been known to exist from that area whereas the documents origin from Antioch where the disciples studied the word for a year would lead credence to those who love Him would keep His words there.

This is why I rely on the KJV, but even then we need Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd because it is not a perfect Bible but unlike modern Bible that changes the message and thus the meat of His words to discern good & evil, thus winding up supporting false teachings by taking it out of context even though there are other scriptures opposing it in that modern bible version, doubt in God's words have been sown, but not so with the KJV in following Jesus by abiding in the meat of His actual words in discerning good & evil where there is no doubt as confirmed by the Spirit in me.

So I am not against the real God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people, which WILL come with interpretation in the assembly,  but I am against any who claim His gift can "also" be for private use.  No, it is not and because there is another pagan's supernatural tongue in the world that is gibberish nonsense is why the real God's gift of tongues can never be for private use or otherwise, there can be no discernment regarding tongues and there can be no discerning the spirits that brings them either for how many have gone astray in these latter days by.

Christ4Us said:

Prophesy is the same as edification by the understood word of God and so with the written scripture available, our edification can come from scripture. 

So prophesy by definition must be verbal communication. Edification means building up. An edifice is a building, and to "edify" is to build up. 

When the apostle Paul wrote this, there was no King James 1611 version, so whatever he means by prophesying, it has absolutely nothing to do with an English version which would not exist for another 1550 years.

Their written Scripture was the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint. This was the Hebrew Scriptures translated into the common tongue, Greek. And yet, the Scriptures contained God's breath. They breathed God in through the Scriptures, then spoke what they had received and enjoyed of God through the Holy Scriptures. This is my understanding of prophesying. In short, eat the Word, digest and live out the Word, then speak the Word into others. This is to build them up, with God. Everyone should earnestly desire to do this.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

Ezekiel 3:2, 4  So I opened my mouth--, and He caused me to eat the scroll. And He said to me, son of man, go, get thee into the house of Israel, and speak with My words unto them.

1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue builds up himself, but he that prophesies builds up the church.

Fred (fnorthrup) said:

Their written Scripture was the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint. This was the Hebrew Scriptures translated into the common tongue, Greek. And yet, the Scriptures contained God's breath. They breathed God in through the Scriptures, then spoke what they had received and enjoyed of God through the Holy Scriptures. This is my understanding of prophesying. In short, eat the Word, digest and live out the Word, then speak the Word into others. This is to build them up, with God. Everyone should earnestly desire to do this.

I only refer to the KJV for English believers today for the written scripture as kept by those who loved Him and His words as the source documents for the KJV originated from Antioch where His disciples studied for a year .

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Because 1 John 5:7 about the 3 Witnesses in Heaven being originally scripture is why we have evidence for us to discern which source documents from where that Bible was derived from, loved Him to keep His words from those that did not.  https://www.chick.com/information/article?id=is-i-john-5:7-missing-from-older-manuscripts

I have no problem with you referring to the King James version brother. Praise the Lord that you have a heart for the Word. It is the incorruptible seed through which we are born of God.(1 Peter 1:23) God's word is living and operative and sharper than a two edged sword, even dividing the soul and spirit (Hebrews 4:12). In the beginning was the Word...and the Word is God. (John 1:1)

Grace to you

Christ4Us said:

Because 1 John 5:7 about the 3 Witnesses in Heaven

If you wish to refer to Jack Chick as an authority regarding the truth, I am fine with that also. As for the controversy regarding 1 John 5:7 there are many easily accessible articles online which explain in great detail why it is controversial, and why many, or most English versions do not contain the "The Trinitarian formula (known as the Comma Johanneum)"

Here is an example: https://bible.org/article/textual-problem-1-john-57-8

Christ4Us said:

Because 1 John 5:7 about the 3 Witnesses in Heaven

I had much discussion with a co-worker regarding this verse. His position was that Satan had this verse removed from modern versions because that diluted the truth concerning the Trinity in the Scriptures. He also was a Jack Chick fan.

I had been studying the Bible for many years and could quote from memory a list of verses which plainly refer to the Triune God, so this argument did not work for me.

Ephesians 2:18 For through Him (the Son) we both have access by one Spirit (the Holy Spirit) unto the Father.

2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God (the Father) and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen.

In reality, the Triune God is revealed in the Scriptures from end to end, both directly and by signs. Here is the Triune God revealed in signs:

Revelation 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life (the Holy Spirit) clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God (the Father) and the Lamb (the Son.)

We can interpret the river as the Spirit because John 7:38-39 says the river of living water is the Spirit.

Praise the Lord for the Bible! Praise the Lord for the life, the light, the life-supply contained in this Book!!!!