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Myth about soviet repressions   History & People

Started 9/10/15 by justawoman; 2755 views.
justawoman

From: justawoman

9/10/15

On July 21,2015 a Russian historian Victor Zemskov died

He was the only one who having the access to the open Soviet Archives made the investigation on the topic "Soviet repressions".

In 1989 he was a member of the Comission that has been organized to determine the amount of the losses of the population in the results of the soviet repressions, the results of the work did not coincide with the story distributed by the media based on claims of the soviet dissidents where the most prominent was Soljenitsyn.

As many historians he wanted to know the truth and the task of the Commission was to support the  "widely known" story with the facts. However, the Comission could not provide scientific evidence for the story of mass repressions and it remained as a myth.

The results of the work have been accepted by scientific and historian communities but historians could not destroy a myth spread world-wide.

In 2014 Zemskov published a book "Stalin and the people: Why there was no revolt" in which he provided  the following statements

1) that the specific weight of those who experienced soviet repressions from the part of the population living in 1918 - 1958 makes 2,5% (about 10 million in relation to over 400 million).


"It means that 97,5% of the population of the USSR weren't exposed to political repressions in any form".

I specify that the scientist considers broad interpretation of the concept "victims of political repression for political reasons", including in it deported, dispossessed, undergone "cleanings" for social motives, etc."

 "In the last  quarter of the century  on concealment of this unbiased fact all power resources have been used.
Everything what is possible and impossible is done to keep the false representation introduced in a mass consciousness that allegedly all  or nearly all people were exposed to various repressions. On this "Black Myth" the younger generation of our people has grown". (Page 103)

 Zemskov advised to listen to the conclusions made by the American historian Robert Tergston:

  • the system of Stalin terror in a picture made by the previous generations of the western researchers, never existed;
  • the influence of the terror on the Soviet society in Stalin years wasn't  high;
  • there was no fear in the masses of the repressions in the 1930th years in the Soviet Union ;
  • repressions had limited character and didn't concern most of the Soviet people;
  • the Soviet society most likely supported the Stalin regime, than was afraid of it;
  • to most of people the Stalinist system provided opportunities of career development and active participation in public life" (Page 100).

 "… simple Soviet citizens in their whole mass  knew little or nothing  about the repressions though the victims made many thousands of innocent people, and for the first time they heard about it only after the well-known speech of N. S. Khrushchev at the XX congress of CPSU in 1956" (Page 120).

 "It was unclear to them ( western historians), for example, how it was possible to fight for the land which the Soviet power "took away" from the peasants, I "withdrew",  "confiscated",  "expropriated", etc.
Meanwhile, all these arguments would be fair only if the "confiscated" land has been transferred to another owners, but it  remained in a collective possession of the same peasants.

All massif of historical sources which we have, incontestably testifies that the Soviet peasants on the whole didn't consider the collective-farm land as allegedly belonged to others and weren't going to give it without fight to the foreign conquerors" (Page 123) .

"Of course, in the society there were anti-Soviet, anti-Bolshevist and anti-Stalin moods.
But we shouldn't exaggerate their scales.
The political system which developed in the USSR had a mass support – most of people were devoted to it. It was personified with incarnate ideals of the October revolution of 1917. And the Soviet state in a consciousness of millions of people was perceived as the only state of workers and peasants in the world .
Therefore the Soviet citizens on the whole in case of military danger were ready to protect not only their Homeland and the state regardless of its political system but also the developed in the USSR social and political system"
(Page 114)

"Actually on the sixth part of the globe there was a new civilization. It was the unique civilization the analog of which analogs did not exist in the history of mankind neither in the past, nor in the present". (Page 113)

 


 

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

9/10/15

the results of the work did not coincide with the story distributed by the media based on claims of the soviet dissidents where the most prominent was Soljenitsyn.

He detailed what he suffered himself.

You kicked him out of his own country for doing so.

Who do you think you are, an American who says "Love it or leave it"?

"… simple Soviet citizens in their whole mass  knew little or nothing  about the repressions though the victims made many thousands of innocent people, and for the first time they heard about it only after the well-known speech of N. S. Khrushchev at the XX congress of CPSU in 1956" (Page 120).

I don't believe you.

My girlfriends paternal grandfather was taken in the middle of the night from their home near Lake Baikal - and, if her grandmother had not trekked 100s of miles westwards to start a new life, they'd have come for the rest of the family.

Her aunt had married a man who, as a 10 year old, had been picked up and dumped, with his entire village on an island in the middle of the river Tom, in October, with no building materials. He saw cannibalism and the only family who survived were him and his sister.

justawoman

From: justawoman

9/11/15

BerrySteph said...

 

the results of the work did not coincide with the story distributed by the media based on claims of the soviet dissidents where the most prominent was Soljenitsyn.

He detailed what he suffered himself.

You kicked him out of his own country for doing so.

Who do you think you are, an American who says "Love it or leave it"?

When he detailed what he "suffered" himself he was published and the book was read in 1960-s. By the way, he came from surgery in Gulag, and they saved his life .

I remember the reaction of my grandfather, he rejected the solidarization with the collaborators ,members of Vlasov Army and policemen that were the major part of the prisoners of Gulag. It was natural, he was in encirclement like Vlasov with his Army but found the way out and joined the Soviet Army and ended the war in Keningsberg. A major part of his family was from Don region, it was murdered by the  policemen.

Soljenitsyn invented a myth about 60 million murdered soviet citizens that today has been grown to 200 million. His authority became a support for many anti-soviet myths. It is hard to say what more he made to his country - good  or bad.

He lied a lot and was exposed, his later statements where he admitted that he "exaggerated" much were constantly ignored.

The story he wrote as a fiction conitued living its own life growing into the anti-soviet Myth irrespective of the author. And he was not able to disprove it loudly. That is why his image is far from being noble, he is a traitor.

"\u2026 simple Soviet citizens in their whole mass  knew little or nothing  about the repressions though the victims made many thousands of innocent people, and for the first time they heard about it only after the well-known speech of N. S. Khrushchev at the XX congress of CPSU in 1956" (Page 120).

I don't believe you.

My girlfriends paternal grandfather was taken in the middle of the night from their home near Lake Baikal - and, if her grandmother had not trekked 100s of miles westwards to start a new life, they'd have come for the rest of the family.

Her aunt had married a man who, as a 10 year old, had been picked up and dumped, with his entire village on an island in the middle of the river Tom, in October, with no building materials. He saw cannibalism and the only family who survived were him and his sister.

 

I did not say it did not happen. But the scale was much less than it is usually said. Overestimation does not allow to understand how the state lived and why people felt happy. The country did not notice these sufferings because the achivements were high. From my family, a family of peasants and workers, there was only one case of imprisonment. He was a head of kolkhoz and was accused in wrong money spending. It was seen as an act of justice. He returned home after several years of imprisonment and continued working in kolkhoz. Other members, living under German occupation, being driven to Germany to the camps, returned home and did not experience repressions.

I will tell you another personal story. When I married my husband it was the end of 1980-s and the topic of represssion was very popular.

My husband told me the story about his family. His grandfather was the owner of the plant in Volga region. He told his grandfather delivered the plant to the soviet state, remained director of the plant but died in the end of 1920-s. This, he said, did not save his parents, they have been sent to Siberia to Gulag where they had to work  till the death of Stalin. He was born in Gulag, he was the third of three sons, the eldest died there in the age of 4, the middle son was diagnosed some mental desease that was called at that time child's schizophrenia and remained the invalid. It was a life of sufferings -  lack of food, cold and frost till they moved to Kyrgyzstan that his parents chose(!) for living among the places that they were suggested to live and work.

His father was an engineer, constructor of plants. He became an honoured constructor of Kyrgyzstan and died there soon after we married. I had no opportunity to meet him, I did not fly to bury him because I was pregnant. What I knew about my husband's parents at that time was that they were stubborn stalinists in spite of the fact they were repressed and his son was in conflict with them. We did not talk about his parents much, he brought some boxes home after their death but did not open them.

When my husband died I opened the boxes and found some documents and photos of people. Separately were the photos from Siberia where the young people were smiling and looked happy. There were the images of the young people in the woods and on the lawns, camping, on the bycicles, inside the rooms of the barracks where they lived in Siberia. It appeared that my husband's parents were the Comsomol members ( young communists) who have been directed to Siberia as specialists to construct the plants. During the war they lived there and experienced the same hardships as all soviet people - lack of food and hard conditions of life in Siberia. But they were happy there, enjoyed their life, they recieved awards for their hard work and believed that with such efforts they would live better. Theyir life improved indeed, they have been granted a very comfortable apartment in a capital of Kyrgyzstan and a summer house in the suburb, my husband receieved good education, his father built plants in republic and became an honourable citizen with high rewards...

It was a shock for me when I realized my husband believed he was a victim while he was not. How many of such brainwashed people live around? They believe in their childish impressions, conclusions based on belief,  rumours, but not the facts that they could not realize because they were too small. It is like with a glass which can be half empty or half full, some people enjoy to feel as victim, some - as the victors. The generation of my parents were mostly victors and they did not want to be victims.

 

 

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

9/11/15

He lied a lot and was exposed, his later statements where he admitted that he "exaggerated" much were constantly ignored.

What did Solzehnitsyn lie about? Where was he exposed?

I did not say it did not happen. But the scale was much less than it is usually said.

I went out with the Russian for several years and met her family.

I'll believe what they told me.

justawoman

From: justawoman

9/11/15

There is a link with the story of writer Almazov who told how the former prisoners discussed the book of Soljenitsyn.

http://cont.ws/post/97916

The main point is that the rumours and prison folklore have been represented as the truth, the figures exaggerated. It was OK for the fiction.

But the problem is that the fiction was turned as the evidence.

NISSY (NISSY2)

From: NISSY (NISSY2)

9/11/15

Victimhood is for the lazy.
Keith_Mc

From: Keith_Mc

9/14/15

"Victimhood is for the lazy."

A new signature?

 

sjaynne2

From: sjaynne2

9/16/15

justawoman

How much actual repression there was in the Soviet Union is debatable. Obviously records can't always be relied upon.

However in Poland there was considerable together with official anti-semitism. My uncle was a world class scientist at a top Polish university.

In the 1960's he was called in by the Communist party for an interview. The interviewer explained it was at the behest of the "Big Comrades" i.e the Russians.

He was asked if he was a Zionist sympathiser. He told them that he was not even Jewish and they took his word for it and left it at that. If he had said "Yes" his career would have been finished.

During the Stalin era Poles were often accused of "being guilty of being suspected". It was not enough to be pro Communist you had to be extremely so which meant you had to spy on your colleagues.

I realise all I can tell you is family testimony and you will likely prefer your web sites but keep my comments in the back of your mind because they might gel with other things.

Regards
Jane

  • Edited September 16, 2015 2:57 pm  by  sjaynne2
NISSY (NISSY2)

From: NISSY (NISSY2)

9/16/15

That doesn't sound very different than the US where careers were damaged by the government when it thought citizens were Communists.

And Zionists are different from Jews. A person can be anti Zionist without being anti Semitic.

sjaynne2

From: sjaynne2

9/17/15

Nissy

There are parallels and there are differences. Communist countries were totalitarian. People were not just forbidden to leave the country they didn't even have the right to live in a different town. If you were accused of a crime in a Communist country you were found guilty. There was no jury therefore the investigation and trial were seamlessly carried out by state officials. As in Russia it was unknown for someone to plead not guilty at a trial. What would be the point of that?

If you were a victim of McCarthyism in the U.S you could at least try and make an alternative life outside the movie industry. Options such as these in a Communist country were virtually nil.

Regards
Jane

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