Pro Passing Attack -  Martz Conceptsnotify me whenever anyone posts in this discussionSubscribe  
 
From:  Pollner  8/29/2005 3:50 pm 
To: ALL  (1 of 46) 
 517.1 
I was wondering if anyone knows where a good discussion of Martz' pattern concepts might be posted. Everything I have read tends to focus on his use of shifts/motion and numbered routes but nothing about the patterns concepts (e.g. you often read about the 'drive' or 'texas' concept in WCO). Thanks for any help.
 
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From:  oneback  8/29/2005 9:07 pm 
To: Pollner  (2 of 46) 
 517.2 in reply to 517.1 

I would dare say that Martz' pass offense incorporates EVERY concept in football today (at LEAST 10 or more). It is the most voluminous playbook I have ever seen. It is FAR to much too even BEGIN disussing via email!!!!! You can order Martz' playbooks (1999, 2000, 2001) from David at lgcuban@comcast.net

Martz is a disciple of DON CORYELL!



Edited 8/30/2005 8:59 am ET by oneback
 
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From:  Maximus145  8/31/2005 8:49 am 
To: Pollner  (3 of 46) 
 517.3 in reply to 517.1 
I once read that Martz uses 14 concepts, or something along that effect.
 
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From:  Maximus145  8/31/2005 8:52 am 
To: oneback  (4 of 46) 
 517.4 in reply to 517.2 
When I watched his passing film of 2000, I counted around 14 different things. He had strong side flood, mesh, weak side flood, middle flood, a couple of 2 and 3 man plays and all go. He had a lot but the # system makes it easier.
 
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From:  oneback  8/31/2005 10:32 am 
To: Maximus145  (5 of 46) 
 517.5 in reply to 517.4 
Check out his playbook. It is like an ENCYCLOPEDIA of modern offense. I don't believe that there are ANY passing game concepts that he does NOT have!
 
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From:  Maximus145  8/31/2005 12:00 pm 
To: oneback  (6 of 46) 
 517.6 in reply to 517.5 
I believe you, trust me.
I remember hearing a college coach talk about the time he was talking to a pro coach about how many passing concepts each of them had. So this pro coach asks the college coach the question and he tells him 8 just so he would sound impressive. Pro coach quips with only 2.
It is safe to say that Martz takes it to another level but with that many concepts who knows what he has.
14 is on record though, SI article I think.
 
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From:  oneback  8/31/2005 10:53 pm 
To: Maximus145 unread  (7 of 46) 
 517.7 in reply to 517.6 

At ONE time (late 1980's I believe) Walsh had 8 & Joe Gibbs had 7 (or it MAY have been the other way around).

Where confusion comes in is in "SUB-CONCEPTS". What one Coach may call ONE concept may actually be what others call TWO! I have seen this happen many times.

 
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From:  coach_kd  8/31/2005 11:44 pm 
To: oneback  (8 of 46) 
 517.8 in reply to 517.7 
I really believe you can fit any pass play in to about one of 5 concepts, which I think are really strategies. The same can be said of "reads", which to me is a way to execute the strategy (a "tactic" of the strategy).

Edited 8/31/2005 11:52 pm ET by coach_kd
 
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From:  Pollner  9/1/2005 3:44 pm 
To: oneback  (9 of 46) 
 517.9 in reply to 517.2 
I probabaly shouldn't asked for Martz specifically. What I am really interested in is the typical route combinations used in the Gilman/Coryell tree and the associated QB reads. Again, thanks for any help.
 
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From:  CoachBott  9/1/2005 5:45 pm 
To: coach_kd  (10 of 46) 
 517.10 in reply to 517.8 

coach_kd, Can you explain in more detail your post. I'm interested in how you break down each concept or "strategy"

Thanks.

 
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From:  oneback  9/1/2005 7:55 pm 
To: Pollner  (11 of 46) 
 517.11 in reply to 517.9 

Martz & Gibbs are disciples of the Coryell offense.

You have Horizontal Stretches (Inside/Out, AND Outside/IN) with either 2 on 1, or 3 on 2 (USUALLY in 1/2 of the field - deep OR under).

You have Vertical Stretches with 3 on 2, or 2 on 1 (USUALLY in 1/3 of the field).

You have "Objective Receiver Concepts" (which is with ANY pass in which a specific receiver is primary - such as "OPTION ROUTES", ETC.).

You have read concepts (below) to facilitate the above: NOTE: "MOFO" = MOF OPEN; "MOFC" = MOF CLOSED).

QUARTERBACK READ SYSTEM:
KNOW THE SITUATION
PRE-SNAP LOOK THE DEFENSE – ANTICIPATE
READ ON THE DROP – ADJUST
THINK: PROTECTION/ADJUSTMENTS/PROGRESSION/TIMING/OUTLETS
BEWARE OF THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD LOOKS – MOFO/MOFC
KNOW THE COVERAGE ELEMENTS:
ZONE 3 DEEP MOFC/2 DEEP MOFO
MAN 3 DEEP MOFC/2 DEEP MOFO
COMBO STRONG MOFO/WEAK MOFO
DOG/BLITZ MOFC/MOFO

You can read defenders OR progressions. Examples below:

DISCUSSION OF PROGRESSION READS AND COVERAGE READS

I. PROGRESSION READS: A progression read is designed to have two or three choices of where to go with the ball. It is important to pre-read the coverage to give you an indication of the coverage, but more importantly, it’s knowing where the receivers are going to be with a progression read pattern called. This kind of read calls for throwing the ball with rhythm drops. You might get to the third receiver in the progression as soon as you hit your fifth step on the drop. So when you are stepping forward to throw, you can hit the third receiver in the progression on the same rhythm you would have if you were throwing to the first.

The limitations of progression reads are:
A) There is a tendency to stare at the receiver that is first in the progression attracting other defenders

B) It is frustrating for coaches to watch because they could see the receiver you didn’t throw to was wide open (Coaches need to know the progression of the play as well as the QB);

C) You will lose patience or think that because you hit the first receiver in the progression he won’t be there when the play is called again. You must have patience and not make up your mind before the ball is snapped.

REMINDERS:
1. Have a plan when you get to the Line of Scrimmage.
2. Stay with the progression.
3. Don’t stare.
4. Progression reads are thrown with rhythm drops.

II. COVERAGE READS: Reading the coverage is normally done in the NFL looking at the pictures that are taken upstairs during the series (when the QB is on the sidelines). In High School & College – the Press Box Coaches do most of the work here. The QB can pre-snap read and get an idea of what might happen. He can see rotations and drops of defenders at the snap of the ball, but may not know what the coverage was. Reading the coverage is really looking at a defender or defenders. Based on what they do you will get to the correct receiver.

THE ADVANTAGES OF THIS KIND OF A READ ARE:
1. It eliminates the struggle of the progression read trying to determine who was more wide open.
2. It eliminates the QB from making up his mind before the snap (we shouldn’t do this regardless of if we Progression Read OR Read the Coverage). Read the defenders to get you to the right receiver in Coverage Reads.
3. It keeps the QB on the same page as the Coach because they both know the read and the goal of the play called.
4. It doesn’t matter what the coverage is because when you are reading properly you will be hitting the correct receiver.
5. You will not have to stare at your receivers (it will give you natural look offs).
6. You don’t have to know what the entire coverage is (you don’t have to see the whole field). NOTE: In our reads – “Progression” AND “Coverage” – we only read ½ the field Horizontally, or 1/3 of the field Vertically.

This is about it. This is EXTREMELY difficult to explain via email!!!!!


Edited 9/1/2005 9:59 pm ET by oneback



Edited 9/2/2005 6:16 pm ET by oneback
 
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From:  coach_kd  9/1/2005 11:22 pm 
To: CoachBott  (12 of 46) 
 517.12 in reply to 517.10 

Coach, this is what I have come to believe with the passing game. Any pass play is structured around a passing concept (concept = a strategy to attack the pass coverage), and paired with a specific read for the QB to execute the concept (read = a tactic to identify who to throw the ball to). Almost any pass play can be categorized with the concepts and reads listed below.

Types of Passing Concepts (strategies)

1. Horizontal Stretch (versus the undercoverage or the deep coverage)
a. Full Field
b. Half Field
c. Floods - more receivers than defenders in a particular zone or adjacent zones
d. Crossers – a dynamic horizontal stretch

2. Vertical Stretch (LOS-Alley-Deep)
a. 1/3 columns of the field
b. 1/4 columns of the field
c. Floods/Obliques - more receivers than defenders in a particular zone or adjacent zones

3. Object Read (also known as a single progression)
a. Man beaters and other one-on-ones
b. Option routes and other special routes
c. Picks, rubs, meshes

4. Uncovered
a. Quick Pass (Hitch, Quick Out, Stop, etc.)
b. Quick Screen (to Slots or WRs)

5. Hots
a. “Quick Receiver” (quick pass route built in to the combo)
b. Sight Adjusts and Break Offs (post snap quick pass adjustment of the route)

6. Combinations of Strategies Above (numerous)

Type of Reads (tactics)

1. Static Progression (predetermined where to start the progression)
a. receiver progression
b. passing lane progression

2. Directional Read (read a defender to determine where to start the progression, read both presnap and postsnap; ensures you are throwing opposite rotation)
a. deep defender (e.g Free Safety)
b. undercoverage defender (e.g. Mike Linebacker)

3. Key Progression (presnap or post snap)
a. man or zone determines where to start the progression
b. MOFO or MOFC determines where to start the progression

4. Area Read (throw to area that was vacated by defender who covers primary receiver, otherwise throw to primary receiver)
a. Triangle/Delta Read (WCO)
b. Line of Sight Read (passing lanes)

5. Key Defender Read (presnap look – PSL, and/or postsnap read – PSR)
a. read single defender (e.g. throw off curl-flat defender)
b. read progression of defenders (e.g. read Free Safety to Mike)

6. Combinations of Tactics Above (numerous)

 
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From:  QBCOACH  9/2/2005 12:10 am 
To: coach_kd  (13 of 46) 
 517.13 in reply to 517.12 

Coach_kd,

Excellent and helpful discussion. I have been having trouble getting my head around this idea of passing concepts. I might want to discuss it with you further sometime.

 
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From:  Pollner  9/2/2005 8:51 am 
To: oneback  (14 of 46) 
 517.14 in reply to 517.11 
Thank you very much. You did a great job summarizing some things that I have been reading in bits and pieces in other places. Thinking about whether a pattern is focused on a vertical or horizontal stretch really helps clarify a lot.
 
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From:  oneback  9/2/2005 12:21 pm 
To: Pollner  (15 of 46) 
 517.15 in reply to 517.14 

Where the CONFUSION can set in is that on numerous passes - you have MORE than one concept.

For EXAMPLE - the way we run the "SMASH" is that we have SOMEONE (#3 receiver from OUTS/IN) threatening the MOF deep - someone (#2 receiver from OUTS/IN) on a CORNER - & someone (*#1 receiver from OUTS/IN) on a "Smash" (I.E. HITCH/RUNAWAY).

If you read MOF POST to CORNER routes - that is a DEEP 2 vs 1 (Safety) HORIZONTAL STRETCH. If you read from the CORNER to the HITCH/RUNAWAY routes - that is a 2 on 1 (Corner) VERTICAL STRETCH.

You can see that if you viewed EVERY pass in an offense - it could become QUITE CONFUSING.

These things are better explained via phone - as no one has time to type a BOOK!!!!!

If you wish - call me at 804-740-4479 (VIRGINIA/EDT) this evening.

Best wishes; Bill

Edited 9/2/2005 12:23 pm ET by oneback



Edited 9/2/2005 6:19 pm ET by oneback
 
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From:  Pollner  9/2/2005 2:08 pm 
To: oneback  (16 of 46) 
 517.16 in reply to 517.15 

Bill,

Thanks for your thoughts and your offer to speak about these things - quite generous. Unfortunately, I have company coming tonight for the labor day weekend (unfortunate because I would rather talk football!). Perhaps I can take you up on the offer another time. Thanks again.

Jeff

 
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From:  coach_kd  9/2/2005 2:11 pm 
To: oneback  (17 of 46) 
 517.17 in reply to 517.15 
Bill, you are right as far as interpretation goes, and you know I got most of this stuff from you! Anyway, with your example I would interpret this as a horizontal stretch of the deep coverage with the Smash routes as check downs. I think you could also interpret this as a vertical stretch of the outside 1/3 of the field (although 2 receivers can not stretch 2 defenders very well) with the divide as a man beater (I think in WCO jargon this would be an alert).
 
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From:  oneback  9/2/2005 6:12 pm 
To: coach_kd  (18 of 46) 
 517.18 in reply to 517.17 

Read on the Smash Pass =:

A) MOFO - progress from MOF (Post) route by #3 receiver to Corner route by #2 receiver. This is a DEEP Horizontal Stretch in the callside 1/2 of the field.

B) MOFC - progress from Corner route by #2 receiver to "smash" by #1 receiver. This is a 2 level Vertical Stretch (deep to short) in the outside 1/3.

IMO - this is the way to read "SMASH"!

 
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From:  oneback  9/2/2005 11:37 pm 
To: coach_kd  (19 of 46) 
 517.19 in reply to 517.17 

Kyle - as far as "PASSING GAME CONCEPTS" go - this is from Norm Chow in 2002 (@ NC State when he had Phillip Rivers at QB): You can see that on SOME of these - he mixes 2 or even 3 concepts within 1 pass:

1. "QUICK GAME CONCEPT" = entire 3 step drop series ("50 SERIES") except for "4 Verticals".

2. "QUICK VERTICALS CONCEPT" = 3 step game with 4 verticals.

NOTE: "60 SERIES" = 5 step drop (SOME but very little 7).

3. "HORIZONTAL STRETCH CONCEPT"
----A) 61 Y Choice
----B) 66
----C) 64

4. "HORIZONTAL STRETCH - RUB CONCEPT"
----A) 62 = MESH ROUTES

5. "DEEP HORIZONTAL STRETCH CONCEPT"
----A) 67

6. "DEEP HORIZONTAL STRETCH - HI/LO CONCEPT"
----A) 68 = SMASH )

7. "VERTICAL STRETCH - HI/LO CONCEPT"
----A) 63

8. "FLOOD - OBLIQUE - HI/LO CONCEPT"
----A) 65

9. "HI/LO - OBLIQUE STRETCH CONCEPT"
----A) 69

These passes (the "50 Series", and "61 thru 69") were the same he used at BYU

He was also experimenting with things he called:

A) "HORIZONTAL - TRIANGLE STRETCH CONCEPT"
B) "HI/LO - RUB CONCEPT"
C) "SNEAK - RUB - HI/LO CONCEPT"

THESE (ABOVE) were used on some "TAGS" that aren't in the base passes listed above (WHICH CAN BE FOUND IN JUST ABOUT ANY OF HIS BYU BOOKS).

The QB READS on the "60 Series" (his "bread & butter") were:

NORM CHOW POST SNAP READS – “60 SERIES”

“61 Y OPTION” – 5 step drop. Eye T.E. and throw it to him unless taken away from the outside by S/S (then hit Z), OR inside by ILB (then hit FB). Don’t throw option route vs. man until receiver makes eye contact with you. Vs. zone – can put it in seam. Vs. zone – no hitch step. Vs. man – MAY need hitch step.

“62” – 5 step drop. Take a peek at F/S – if he’s up hit Z on post. Otherwise watch X-Y mesh occur – somebody will pop open – let him have ball. Vs. zone – throw to Fullback.

“63” – 5 step drop and hitch (7 steps permissible). Read F/S: X = #1; Z = #2; Y OR HB = #3.

“64” – 5 step drop. Key best located Safety on 1st step. Vs. 3 deep look at F/S – if he goes weak – go strong (Z = #1 to FB = #2 off S/S); if he goes straight back or strong – go weak (X = #1 to HB = #2 off Will LB). Vs. 5 under man – Y is your only choice. Vs. 5 under zone – X & Z will fade.

“65” – 5 step drop and hitch. Read the S/S. Peek at Z #1; Y = #2; FB = #3. As you eyeball #2 & see color (F/S flash to Y) go to post to X. Vs. 2 deep zone go to Z = #1 to Y = #2 off S/S.

“66” – 5 step drop and hitch. On your first step read Mike LB (MLB or first LB inside Will in 3-4). If Mike goes straight back or strong – go weak (X = #1; HB = #2). If Mike goes weak – go strong (Y = #1; Z = #2; FB = #3). This is an inside-out progression. NOT GOOD vs. 2 deep 5 under.

“67” – 5 step drop and hitch. Read receiver (WR) rather than defender (Corner). Vs. 2 deep go from Y = #1 to Z = #2. Vs. 3 deep read same as “64” pass (Will LB) for X = #1 or HB = #2. Equally good vs Cover 2 regardless if man OR zone under.

“68 SMASH” – 5 step drop and hitch. Vs. 2 deep look HB = #1; FB = #2 (shoot); Z = #3. Vs. 3 deep – stretch long to short to either side. Vs. man – go to WR’s on “returns”.

“69 HB OPTION” – 5 step drop - hitch up only if you need to. Eye HB: HB = #1; Y = #2. QB & receiver MUST make eye contact vs. man. Vs. zone – receiver finds seam (takes it a little wider vs. 5 under). Only time you go to Y is if Will LB and Mike LB squeeze HB. If Will comes & F/S moves over on HB – HB is “HOT” and will turn flat quick and run away from F/S. Otherwise HB runs at his man to reinforce his position before making his break.

NOTE: BLITZ AUDIBLES IN “60 SERIES” when we want “Y” to enter in protection on widest rusher (S/S or OLB) his side: “MAX PRO”.

1. “67 Stay”
2. “63 Stay” – gives X on post if F/S lines up strong on Y.
3. “62 Stay” – gives Z on post if F/S aligns weak on HB.

I copied the above on legal pad out of his QB Playbook that he let me use in the coaching office.



Edited 9/2/2005 11:45 pm ET by oneback
 
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From:  oneback  9/3/2005 12:33 am 
To: ALL  (20 of 46) 
 517.20 in reply to 517.19 

Another GOOD perspective on "PASSING GAME CONCEPTS" is from Gene Dahlquist (fine QB Coach at U of Texas under John Macovic - who also coached the KC Chiefs, & now coaching in NFL Europe - I believe):

CONCEPTS:

#1 - "PROGRESSIONS" = Reading progressions of receivers only;

#2 - "ONE ON ONES" = FINDING the BEST one on ones thru various types of pre-snap & post-snap reads.

#3 - "ISLOATIONS" - Just isolating 1 receiver on 1 defender on a PARTICULAR route.

#4 - "OPTIONS" - Prime receiver runs an "Option" route vs a defender (with a 4 or 5 way go).

#5 - "TWO AGAINST THE SIDELINE" (Hi/Lo off flat coverage). What I call a "2 Level Vertical Stretch".

#6 - "THREE AGAINST THE SIDELINE" - what I call a "3 Level Vertical Stretch"

#7 - "WORKING THE LEVELS" - three receivers vertically in the middle of the field (also a 3 level vertical stretch, but in mid 1/3 rather than outs. 1/3).

#8 - "THREE DEEP RECEIVERS VS TWO DEEP DEFENDERS" - horizontally stretching a 2 Deep Zone defense.

#9 - "FOUR DEEP RECEIVERS VS THREE DEEP DEFENDERS" - horizontally stretching a 3 Deep Zone defense.

#10 - "TWO RECEIVERS VS ONE DEFENDER UNDERNEATH" - horizontally stretching 1 undercoverage defender in 1/2 of the field.

#11 - "THREE RECEIVERS VS TWO UNDERNEATH DEFENDERS" - horizontally stretching 2 undercoverage defenders in 1/2 of the field.

#12 - "MAN/ZONE COMBINATIONS" - set one side of pattern to handle MAN & set the other side of the pattern to attak zone.

If you check this out, & the NORM CHOW "Concepts" posted earlier (above) - it is two different (& interesting) perspectives on "PASSING GAME CONCEPTS"!

NOTE: To MY way of thinking (CONSTANTLY trying to SIMPLIFY) - I would COMBINE many of the above into FEWER Concepts:

A) HORIZONTAL STRETCH (either INS/OUT OR OUTS/IN) would encompass #'s 8, 9, 10, & 11!

B) VERTICAL STRETCH would encompass #'s 5, 6, & 7!

C) OBJECT RECEIVER READ would encompas #'s 2, 3, & 4!

I wouldn't list #1 ("progressions") as a seperate "PASSING GAME CONCEPT" - because we have "progressions" in MOST of the concepts.

FINALLY - I think that #12 ("COMBINATIONS") is a GREAT concept!

Edited 9/3/2005 12:55 am ET by oneback



Edited 9/3/2005 12:58 am ET by oneback
 
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