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From: Lielqa10/23/15 12:39 AM 
To: RGoss99  (11 of 60) 
 2595.11 in reply to 2595.9 

Very interesting RGoss, a lovely festival and a lovely place. The gegants are a great example of how the idea of a 'totem' can masquerade as the safer 'mascot'. The closest thing to a gegant in my parts would be Big Tex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Tex (yes I know, steeped in history and mystery) The Catholic Church is actually very accommodating to pagan practices. Also in my parts, there is a sizable Mexican American Catholic population that celebrates Dia de los Muertos. Skeleton themed art, skeleton themed baked goods, and carefully crafted altars to loved ones passed to celebrate their life.

'including "castells". In this case they are also practical because the castellera teams can´t see or hear commands from the captains,

so the climb is choreographed. [clip is my team in a failed castell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFF7qbQO06w'

Your team was so close to completing the tower! A feat of strength and balance for sure.

 
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From: RGoss9910/23/15 4:19 AM 
To: Lielqa  (12 of 60) 
 2595.12 in reply to 2595.11 

When Christianity moved out of the monotheistic Arabian desert context it had a marketing problem in that the potential "customers" were more comfortable

with a pantheon of gods, and a father god without a mother god was inconcievable.

One result was the Virgin Mary was given an upgrade to the status to mother goddess.

As a local example, this island has about 40 municipalities, and 40 sites where "Mary" has a cult shrine.

Note that this is a coincidence of numbers because these do not coincide. My village has one, of Templar origin, but "Algaida" (same word as "Al Caida") has three

on the same mountain) and though to the south, Montuiri, has none to Mary, it has two others of pagan origin "Mount of Iris" is the village, and near by St Michael´s

Mount (think Mt San Michele in France, and St Michael´s mount inEngland). You see with local gods, they merely made them into saints.

They also recycled them. Our church has 21 chapels, each with its own cult, and prenapoleanic social service. For example in the farmer´s chapel, are two recycled

Persian weather gods, now saints Synon and Abdon. Gods they could not accomodate they made into dimonis, witches, fairies. One more famous of these was recycled from a village

here, simply substitute Indian shepherd for Magrebi shepherd. Mount Tepeyak, now within Mexico city, is shaped like a breast and was an Aztec earth mother site, and is a major Mexican

pilgrimage site under the title of Our Lady of Guadalupe, who protects her people. Ironicly, the largest Amercan auto insurance company, All State, in Mexico is Tepeyak.

We never had the Reformation, which had three different results. Little change in Catholic countries, separation of pagan ritual form orthodox christianity as in England where

Morris dancing was moved from the church to the bar and village green, or in mixed Protestant-Catholic regions where they were down graded to Disney like big heads for Carnival.

In Algaida the big ritual day is St Honorat. During the offertory of the mass, "Morris dancers" (similar costume to England, bells on their legs) dance up the aisle waving sprigs of

basil, which the priest takes and blesses, and distibutes to the congregation to put in their hair, or button hole. After mass they ritually kill the dimoni, then repeat the ritual at

all the village boundary crosses to keep them safe for another year. In my village we run through fire.

Here, every Mallorquin is supposed to make a "haj" to Lluc, our spiritual umbilicus in the mountains, it has a "magic" virgin. While "Lluc" is our way of saying "Luke" in this case it has nothing to

do with the evangelist, but a Latin word for a sacred grove in preChristian times. It does not matter when one goes, but one should walk from home. The big event is the 9 days (novena) before the

first day of school, when people start walking as early as noon on Saturday from distant villages, picking up people on the way, walking all night and arriving via three paths around 08:00 on Sunday

morning (this year there were 10,000 - looked like a bunch of Syrians trying to get into Europe. Gegants also go with augmented teams. The usual is 6 portadors three alternating for each gegant. but on

this occasion my village had 30 to make the 16 hour trip, carry 15 minutes, rest for 2 hours.

The "castells" serve two purposes they are phalic symbols (note that in the forecourt of St Peter´s in Rome is an obelisc, which serves the same purpose, as do may poles. Note that we don´t

have many trees here, so there is a military use, for quietly climbing fortifications. There are 150 teams between here (Balearics - ancient kingdom of Mallorca), Valencia, Catalunya, Rousillon (France).

The minors go up to 7 levels, majors up to 10. both our minor teams have reached 8, but they always collapse, and many majors have had the same problem with 11 - see clip attached.

Last Saturday, my team came in second with a 7, but the visiting team (major) from Vilafranca de Penedes (Catalunya) did two of 8. Here is one of their falls, the word for which translates

"firewood" (think match sticks) I am sending another clip, to give more context. A major festa is a novena, 9 days starting at sundown on a Friday and ending at sundown on a Sunday a week later.

This one for St Tecla, shows several pagan elements including morris type dancing and castells.

The third clip is a joke illustrating the "military" uses based on the joke, "how many x does it take to change a light bulb".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IZ7CaGNI6w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XORP1gVDjEM

[you might want to let the one above segue into similar ones attached]

http://www.porrerestv.com/index.php/videoteca/24-porreres/147-de-com-els-castellers-de-mallorca-ajudaren-en-richard.html

 

 

 

 

 
From: Lielqa10/24/15 12:55 AM 
To: RGoss99  (13 of 60) 
 2595.13 in reply to 2595.12 

Yes, the more 'newness' spreads, the more obscured the old ways become until they are forgotten. Local customs and beliefs are not widely regarded the same as valuable antiques.

Those look like some wild festivals! They look fun and well designed. We could have nothing like that here, it would be mistaken for a riot in a renaissance fair unfortunately and quickly dismantled by police.

 

 
From: RGoss9910/24/15 3:15 AM 
To: Lielqa  (14 of 60) 
 2595.14 in reply to 2595.13 

There is a book you might be interested in. It is called "Dancing in the Streets"

https://www.google.es/search?q=dancing+in+the+streets+book+ehrenreich&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=QSUrVoeQAoTzUNn5qIAG

It is a social commentary showing how the official church and such tendencies as fascjos, javer talem awau the promitive expressions of joy

related to social interaction from pagan times.

 

To give you an example. Every two years Mallorca has a folk dance festivals. While folk dancing has its roots in pagan times, what we have now

is mostly clubs. Not the <FOLK> dancing, but the choregraphed dancing of the Folk Dancing Folk. In a typical festival we have about 70 groups from

40 ountries, each doing 4 exhibitions a day for 6 days, with 8 stages. With the exception of Mallorca, they are all based on choreographies made up

in the 20 century. For show purposes Mallorca also choreographs, the difference is that the other countries dancers can´t dance without the choreographies.

Here while we have only 4 basic dances, they are free style and at any given moment in the same area are couples, and circular or longways formations,

all doing something different to the same music, dancers who learn from parents or watching "reading" the body language of a partner or assumed leader.

I´ll give you two clips, one from face book that you might not be able to bring up. Costumes and mistakes are not important, the dancing is for the dancers and

not the spectators. Effort and ability sorts people out, with the older former dancers sitting out and just clacking their castanetes.

Anyone can join in and fake it, as other dancers are tollerent. What we have in America are choreographed, learned in classes - square dances, line dances - as

one spectator commented - sex by the numbers. In the old Soviet block, there was state supported semi professional groups, to keep the masses happy.

As this festival is off season, the 70 groups are put up in tourist hotels, where there are parties at night, in most cases the "dancers" sit and watch or share

their choreographies.

Bolero

https://www.facebook.com/richard.n.goss/videos/vb.616169756/10153018760924757/?type=3&theater

Fandango [Note that ability, gender, age, are not important]

https://www.facebook.com/richard.n.goss/videos/vb.616169756/10152265859739757/?type=3&theater

Jota - type boulanguera - any one can cut in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCQgsdN8aj8

 [I think this clip - when finished, links to another]

[Note that ability, gender, age, are not important]

 

 

 
From: Lielqa10/25/15 4:51 PM 
To: RGoss99  (15 of 60) 
 2595.15 in reply to 2595.14 

Those are interesting references RGoss, thanks for the information. There are festivals here where people are encouraged to dress up in costume and participate (and eat, drink, spend a lot of money). Not so much dancing though...

 

 

 
From: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon11/11/15 11:08 PM 
To: Lielqa  (16 of 60) 
 2595.16 in reply to 2595.1 
Hi, Lielqa! Noticed this posting here requesting a sig ...



From: Jordan (crosses2dove) DelphiPlus Member IconNov-10 6:08 PM 
To: All  (1 of 1) 
 2609.1 

I saw a promo on the front page for a animal totem sig.  If you all are still doing that I would like to have one.

The name is Jordan and the animal is a bear.  The colors won't really matter, so leaving that up to you all!

Thanks in advance!  Love your forum


  • Edited November 11, 2015 11:15 pm  by  SiFan
 

Message 17 of 60 was Deleted  

 
From: Jordan (crosses2dove) DelphiPlus Member Icon11/12/15 4:58 AM 
To: Lielqa  (18 of 60) 
 2595.18 in reply to 2595.16 

I think I would like the color purple.

 

 
From: Lielqa11/12/15 5:45 PM 
To: Jordan (crosses2dove) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (19 of 60) 
 2595.19 in reply to 2595.18 

Purple Bear (also attached):

 

  • Edited June 1, 2020 12:24 am  by  Lielqa
 

 
From: Jordan (crosses2dove) DelphiPlus Member Icon11/12/15 7:07 PM 
To: Lielqa  (20 of 60) 
 2595.20 in reply to 2595.19 

Thank you so much!  I love it :)

 

 
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