Paganism -  7 things Christians don't know (208 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
 
From: MythBlade (Talismonger)12/18/06 8:45 PM 
To: All  (1 of 35) 
 9350.1 

Seven Things (Some) Christians Don't Know About Christmas



  1. You can't put Christ back into Christmas, because he was never there. Truth is, the celebration adopted by the early Christian church -- and which was later renamed "Christmas" -- is really the pagan winter solstice celebration known as Saturnalia.

  2. Christ's birthday is not -- and never was -- mentioned as an occasion for celebration. The nativity story was not intended as reason for celebrating a birthday. Birthdays are not a Biblical reason for celebration. There is no command or directive to celebrate this occasion.

  3. There were not three wisemen visiting the baby Jesus. That's an assumption drawn from the fact that three gifts were bestowed on the Christchild by wisemen from "The East." Just because wisemen gave gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh doesn't mean there were only three of them, it only means they gave three kinds of gifts.

  4. The Christmas tree is not a Christian tradition. The idea of decorating an evergreen tree in the middle of winter is a concept predating Christianity. Early Germanic tribes celebrated the holiday of Yule which fell on the winter solstice and signified the coming greening of the earth hereafter. There is some evidence that the practice may have reached the the Mesopotamian basin during Biblical times, since some scholars believe Jeremiah's condemnation of the practice of decorating trees cut from the forest reflects this influence. (Jeremiah 10:2-4)

  5. The tradition of exchanging gifts is a not Christian. This one also predates Christianity by several centuries, possibly more. The celebration of Yule included the giving of gifts, but many middle eastern traditions embraced similar practices. Gift-giving is an ages-old tradition, despite modern commercialization of it.

  6. The Virgin Birth story isn't "new" to the birth of Jesus. This is a concept common to many ancient pagan religious sects. Biblical scholars believe the concept of a virgin birth may have entered the Old Testament lexicon from Egyptian mythology during the Hebrew exile. In Egyptian lore, Queen Mut`emua was a virgin when she bore Amenophis III, the s o n of the god Kneph (also known as the Holy Spirit). This virgin birth is announced beforehand by the god Taht and the child is visited by wisemen from the East, bearing gifts. Sound familiar?

  7. Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. Not only that, but he was probably born in August or September. Remember, the shepherds were in the hills watching their flocks by night. That's not where they kept their flocks in snowy late-December.
 
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From: Alli (AlliJaguar)12/21/06 11:32 PM 
To: MythBlade (Talismonger)  (2 of 35) 
 9350.2 in reply to 9350.1 
#6 even happened to a Komodo dragon this season. Mary was parthenogenesis ;)



I do (free, really) tarot via email, ask nicely.
(It's good practice for me!)


 

 
From: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon1/4/07 1:42 AM 
To: MythBlade (Talismonger)  (3 of 35) 
 9350.3 in reply to 9350.1 

As well for number 6, in The Epic Of Gilgamesh, King Gilgamesh is said to the product of a human woman and a god. The EOG predates the bible by centuries. Reading it you will find a LOT of common elements that were passed down later on and used by the Hebrews and early Christians when they were first establishing their faiths.

All that aside, thread hijack!

I'm still alive and well. 60 days to go! Can't believe I've endured four months of this hellhole.

Peace~~~

 

 
From: Indilwen Mireia Tintilariel (LillaKat)12/9/07 5:08 AM 
To: MythBlade (Talismonger) unread  (4 of 35) 
 9350.4 in reply to 9350.1 
Very true. Thanks for the post. I know it's been awhile, but hey. :<)
Love and peace,
Brigit
 

 
From: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon12/19/07 12:38 PM 
To: MythBlade (Talismonger) unread  (5 of 35) 
 9350.5 in reply to 9350.1 

Hi, Myth. Am Pagan and 'plain no-denomination Christian' is my main path. Mostly agree with your observations.

You can't put Christ back into Christmas, because he was never there. Truth is, the celebration adopted by the early Christian church -- and which was later renamed "Christmas" -- is really the pagan winter solstice celebration known as Saturnalia.

Or Yule. On the other hand the Church prevailed. It became "Christmas". That's a plain fact of the history of Western civilization. Who knows what Winter Solstice was called before it was "Yule"?

Christ's birthday is not -- and never was -- mentioned as an occasion for celebration. The nativity story was not intended as reason for celebrating a birthday. Birthdays are not a Biblical reason for celebration. There is no command or directive to celebrate this occasion.

True enough.

There were not three wisemen visiting the baby Jesus. That's an assumption drawn from the fact that three gifts were bestowed on the Christchild by wisemen from "The East." Just because wisemen gave gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh doesn't mean there were only three of them, it only means they gave three kinds of gifts.

Yep. We do not know how many wisemen showed up. For one thing, if they were wise, they would at least travel with a few guards. And, we cannot be sure that gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh were the only gifts they gave.

The Christmas tree is not a Christian tradition. The idea of decorating an evergreen tree in the middle of winter is a concept predating Christianity. Early Germanic tribes celebrated the holiday of Yule which fell on the winter solstice and signified the coming greening of the earth hereafter. There is some evidence that the practice may have reached the the Mesopotamian basin during Biblical times, since some scholars believe Jeremiah's condemnation of the practice of decorating trees cut from the forest reflects this influence. (Jeremiah 10:2-4)

Yes and no. From readings it's clear that Christians did not originate the idea of decorating evergreen trees. However, it seems, they were the ones who decided to chop down small ones and drag them indoors to be decorated.

The tradition of exchanging gifts is a not Christian. This one also predates Christianity by several centuries, possibly more. The celebration of Yule included the giving of gifts, but many middle eastern traditions embraced similar practices. Gift-giving is an ages-old tradition, despite modern commercialization of it.

For sure.

The Virgin Birth story isn't "new" to the birth of Jesus. This is a concept common to many ancient pagan religious sects. Biblical scholars believe the concept of a virgin birth may have entered the Old Testament lexicon from Egyptian mythology during the Hebrew exile. In Egyptian lore, Queen Mut`emua was a virgin when she bore Amenophis III, the s o n of the god Kneph (also known as the Holy Spirit). This virgin birth is announced beforehand by the god Taht and the child is visited by wisemen from the East, bearing gifts. Sound familiar?

Pretty familiar.

Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. Not only that, but he was probably born in August or September. Remember, the shepherds were in the hills watching their flocks by night. That's not where they kept their flocks in snowy late-December.

Wonder why so many people miss that? You gotta admit it is kind of a nice cozy idea (for those sitting around a fireplace on Christmas Eve)-- shepherds out in the fields under a brittle clear Winter Solstice night sky tending their absolutely insane sheep in the icy cold.

The chronology of the Gospel of Luke makes it clear that Jesus was conceived right around Winter Solstice and born in late September.

 

 
From: Gypsy (gypsy0727) DelphiPlus Member Icon1/11/08 10:56 PM 
To: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (6 of 35) 
 9350.6 in reply to 9350.3 
SEMPER FI!!!
 

 
From: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon1/31/08 7:19 AM 
To: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (7 of 35) 
 9350.7 in reply to 9350.3 

Hi, Sumer!

Where you been? What stuff are you doing now?

 

 

 
From: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon2/1/08 12:55 AM 
To: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon  (8 of 35) 
 9350.8 in reply to 9350.7 

I'll spare you the details. It's been a hard transition into civilian life and a very difficult journey into atheism.

Nice to hear from you.

 

 
From: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon2/1/08 12:15 PM 
To: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (9 of 35) 
 9350.9 in reply to 9350.8 

I'll spare you the details. It's been a hard transition into civilian life and a very difficult journey into atheism.

Bet it is hard to transition from the military. One day you're out there in Iraq with your life on the line against terrorists and 'insurgents' and giant sand spiders, the next you're back here watching American Idol on TV. Wonder if I'd kind of miss Iraq (except for the big spiders).

Moving to atheism? How come?

Nice to hear from you.

Glad you are back. FC is still your home.

 

 
From: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon2/1/08 10:19 PM 
To: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon  (10 of 35) 
 9350.10 in reply to 9350.9 

Why Atheism? Long long explanation that I've already made once. If you aren't on the list for Gekko Moon, I'll repost it here. I don't feel like getting into it again. I'm done with religion and I've never felt better. They say the truth will set you free and, well, admitting to myself what I always knew was ....uplifting. Not that I came outta the closet or anything, lol. Still with my lovely G/F. I just finally let go of the need I felt for religion. I have no place for it in my life anymore and I had felt that way for years but clung tightly like most do. In the end, I just admitted to myself that I was living a lie. It all got better after that.

I've been over to FC occassionally. I see no reason for me to be there. Sorry.

  • Edited 2/2/2008 11:54 am by JCP (SumerianWolf)
 

 
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