Paganism -  7 things Christians don't know (205 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
 
From: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon2/2/08 11:26 PM 
To: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon  (12 of 35) 
 9350.12 in reply to 9350.11 

Well since you make the distinction, I have to say I'm as hard as they come my friend. No belief in an imaginary being. No fairy tales. I'm all grown up now. You should try it sometime. When you make that final leap and let go of the imagined need for religion, things get better by the second.

 

~~~JCP~~~

 
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From: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon2/3/08 4:47 AM 
To: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (13 of 35) 
 9350.13 in reply to 9350.12 

Well since you make the distinction, I have to say I'm as hard as they come my friend. No belief in an imaginary being. No fairy tales. I'm all grown up now. You should try it sometime. When you make that final leap and let go of the imagined need for religion, things get better by the second.

Agree. Remember when I broke with religion, was Catholic. One day it just happened. Kind of hurts; but, you just must do it.

Letting go of religion, when you are ready, is for the best. Taking off the 'training wheels'. Spiritually speaking, you are 'out there' on your own, responsible for your spiritual beliefs.

Your spirituality, your path, is, for now, atheism. Mine is a mix of Christian and many other ideas. We are both Pagans.

 

 
From: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon2/3/08 11:37 AM 
To: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon  (14 of 35) 
 9350.14 in reply to 9350.13 

I have no idea where you get that I am Pagan in some way, as Pagan would be defined as someone following some revived, rehashed version of what they think people used to believe in before or apart from christianity.

I am none of that. I am godless, faithless, and bound by nothing but my own desire to live a good life and be the best brother, uncle, boyfriend, friend, and one day husband and father that I can be. I will live on through the genetics I pass to my children and the memories I leave behind in the minds of those that love me.

If you want to know what I think about life beyond physical death, Alison and I have discussed it at length in GM. I'm starting to feel a little silly having the same discussion in two places at once actually. GM is my home on delphi and always will be no matter my "path". This place stopped fulfilling any purpose for me years ago.

 

 
From: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon2/3/08 5:08 PM 
To: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (15 of 35) 
 9350.15 in reply to 9350.14 

I have no idea where you get that I am Pagan in some way, as Pagan would be defined as someone following some revived, rehashed version of what they think people used to believe in before or apart from christianity.

You misunderstand what it is to be Pagan today. Not some rehash of old beliefs labeled by the early Christian church as "pagan". To be Pagan is mainly to follow your individual spirituality. Not a matter of imposing a definition; it's just who Pagans are. Modern Pagans have defined themselves.

I am none of that. I am godless, faithless, and bound by nothing but my own desire to live a good life and be the best brother, uncle, boyfriend, friend, and one day husband and father that I can be. I will live on through the genetics I pass to my children and the memories I leave behind in the minds of those that love me.

If you want to know what I think about life beyond physical death, Alison and I have discussed it at length in GM. I'm starting to feel a little silly having the same discussion in two places at once actually. GM is my home on delphi and always will be no matter my "path". This place stopped fulfilling any purpose for me years ago.

This is a fine place; but, okay, will move to Swampy's forum to, perhaps, continue.

 

 
From: Kirsten (koshugi)2/4/08 1:48 PM 
To: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon  (16 of 35) 
 9350.16 in reply to 9350.11 
That would be great if someone could manage the forum until Astarte can again. :D

 

 
From: Kirsten (koshugi)2/4/08 1:54 PM 
To: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (17 of 35) 
 9350.17 in reply to 9350.14 
I guess Scientific Pantheism could be considered Pagan too. Edited to add: Some Buddhists are also atheists; I guess they would be considered Pagan...There are also people that believe in life after death but don't believe that there is any sentient being behind that, that it's just a natural part of nature and science like living our lives and nature itself are. They could be considered Pagan too I suppose?

  • Edited 2/4/2008 1:57 pm by Meloid (koshugi)
 

 
From: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon2/4/08 8:35 PM 
To: Kirsten (koshugi)  (18 of 35) 
 9350.18 in reply to 9350.16 

That would be great if someone could manage the forum until Astarte can again. :D

Seems like there must be a long-time regular member here who could run the forum.

 

 
From: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon2/4/08 10:53 PM 
To: Kirsten (koshugi)  (19 of 35) 
 9350.19 in reply to 9350.17 

Scientific Pantheism? Where do you guys get this stuff ...

My belief in some kind of existance beyond physical death is NOTHING like Buddhism's nonsense of reincarnation on different worlds to learn different things. Sudaharta Guatama was a "highly overrated mammal" in the words of one of my favorite authors.

For those who can't visit GM and see what I wrote about it, I want to make it clear right now that I do NOT believe in a "soul" or "spirit". I do believe, quite frankly based on one unexplainable experience of my own and on ...I'll be honest ...watching the show "Ghosthunters". I think surviving physical death isn't normal. I think those who happen to have part of their mind somehow survive and stick around seem very lost and confused, sad, angry, and just plain depressed. They don't often know who they are anymore or how they got here or why they are still here. They often don't know they are dead and can even be heard on a lot of EVP's just asking to be left alone.

I'm not here to debate the meaning of the term Pagan. But I'll offer help to Si since she seems confused.

Wikipedia defines it thusly ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagan

The Witches voice says this ...

"So, What Does It All Mean?

Let’s start at the beginning. Paganism is not a single religion. It is an umbrella term generally used to cover all those religions, which are not considered to be “main world religions”, i.e. Christianity, Judaism and Islam. A person who follows one of the “other” faiths is considered to be a Pagan. Many Witches, and other Neo-Pagans simply identify themselves as "Pagan" in order to simplify the conversation when talking with someone (like, perhaps you) who may or may not be familiar with the different belief systems. This, rather unintentionally, often makes it sound as though "Paganism" is a religion – as opposed to a collection of religions. Just for the record, Neo-Paganism is not the same as the "New Age" movement. Generally, Pagans are involved in a distinctive religion. The New Age movement draws its spirituality from varied sources, as almost a supplement to the religion already practiced by that person"

Decide for yourself. But Please, don't call me Pagan.

I will say I don't like being lumped in with Buddhists. I'm in control of my mind. I'm in control of my life. You may not believe in deities but you'll never see an atheist giving up any part of their life or any pleasure or practice for "purification" of anything. I gave up smoking because I was tired of feeling unhealthy and spending so much money on something that was gone in a day and hadn't improved my life in any way.

A Buddhist or any other spiritualist or religionist would say they gave up smoking because they felt "moved" to do it or because God wanted them to. Whatever floats yer boat, but don't include me with people that believe in imaginary concepts like that. I'm firmly grounded in reality.

Peace.

 

 
From: Kirsten (koshugi)2/5/08 2:25 PM 
To: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon  (20 of 35) 
 9350.20 in reply to 9350.18 
Yes, you would think!

 

 
From: SiFan DelphiPlus Member Icon2/5/08 8:13 PM 
To: JCP (SumerianWolf) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (21 of 35) 
 9350.21 in reply to 9350.19 

....

My belief in some kind of existance beyond physical death is NOTHING like Buddhism's nonsense of reincarnation on different worlds to learn different things. Sudaharta Guatama was a "highly overrated mammal" in the words of one of my favorite authors.

For those who can't visit GM and see what I wrote about it, I want to make it clear right now that I do NOT believe in a "soul" or "spirit". I do believe, quite frankly based on one unexplainable experience of my own and on ...I'll be honest ...watching the show "Ghosthunters". I think surviving physical death isn't normal. I think those who happen to have part of their mind somehow survive and stick around seem very lost and confused, sad, angry, and just plain depressed. They don't often know who they are anymore or how they got here or why they are still here. They often don't know they are dead and can even be heard on a lot of EVP's just asking to be left alone.

Am not so sure ghosts might not yield to a scientific explanation-- such as some sort of persistent energy pattern.

A better question relates to conscious self-awareness. How is it that we can say "I am" and know what it means? So far, no one has come up with an explanation based in 'physical reality'.

The brain is a biological computer; no explanation there, except, maybe that conscious self-awareness attaches to 'living computers'. Science has no clue for building a consciously self-aware computer.

One explanation is the existence of some great mind beyond physical reality. It senses and views this reality via each person's body and brain. It is part of us and allows each person to be a self-aware individual.

Can that individual survive death? Buddha appears to say 'No'. How can someone have multiple lives, usually with no memories to build upon, and be the same individual? And, if one ends up as God, then, doesn't that kind of squash the idea of individual survival?

Jesus said we can survive as an individual. That was a revolutioary teaching.

Your faith strikes me as odd because it does not seem to hope for much. Why would someone believe 'God' ('Goddess', 'The Great Spirit') does not exist when it is clearly, by simple logic, impossible to prove?

I'm not here to debate the meaning of the term Pagan. But I'll offer help to Si since she seems confused.

Wikipedia defines it thusly ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagan

The Witches voice says this ...

"So, What Does It All Mean?

Let’s start at the beginning. Paganism is not a single religion. It is an umbrella term generally used to cover all those religions, which are not considered to be “main world religions”, i.e. Christianity, Judaism and Islam. A person who follows one of the “other” faiths is considered to be a Pagan. Many Witches, and other Neo-Pagans simply identify themselves as "Pagan" in order to simplify the conversation when talking with someone (like, perhaps you) who may or may not be familiar with the different belief systems. This, rather unintentionally, often makes it sound as though "Paganism" is a religion – as opposed to a collection of religions. Just for the record, Neo-Paganism is not the same as the "New Age" movement. Generally, Pagans are involved in a distinctive religion. The New Age movement draws its spirituality from varied sources, as almost a supplement to the religion already practiced by that person"

Decide for yourself. But Please, don't call me Pagan.

....

Wiki and Witches' Voice descriptions are not all that bad. (Of course, the notion of including Buddhism, Hinduism, and and any other of the long established religions of the East "Pagan" is absurd. That is simply swallowing the blanket definition for "pagan" or "heathan" supplied by the early Christian church.)

However, those descriptions miss a basic fact of who modern Pagans actually are.

Modern Pagans are essentially individually spiritual.

Some may participate in Wicca or some other 'pagan religion'; but, even then, most are 'individual practioners'. As for the religions, they are so small, uncomprehensive, and undemanding that being a member amounts to practicing individual spirituality. Pagans routinely add in or reject beliefs as they wish or feel led.

Most modern Pagans are not 'religious' in the sense that term is used to describe members of, say, a Christian or Islamic sect.

To the above we can add that modern Pagans generally feel an affinity for the Earth and for nature as a teacher. Modern Pagans tend to be spiritual explorers; they are, in general, going to have some interest in so-called 'new age' topics and items.

 

 
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