Lordrag

Pulling to the Left

Hosted by Lordrag|pullingtotheleft.wordpress.com

The news and politics hub! Pulling To The Left is a forum for discussion and debate of politics, news and culture from a progressive viewpoint, but conservatives and moderates are also welcome!

  • 9721
    MEMBERS
  • 332726
    MESSAGES
  • 44
    POSTS TODAY

Menu

Messages

Hang on a second here...   In The News

Started 5/31/08 by Becca (SAPPHOS41); 337 views.
Becca (SAPPHOS41)

From: Becca (SAPPHOS41)

5/31/08

Am I imagining things, or does this gas price temperature map look familiar? Specifically, think in terms of red state/blue state.

Or am I really just imagining it?

You're imagining it, of course.

I know, 'cuz I'm sharing the same delusion.

;)

Becca (SAPPHOS41)

From: Becca (SAPPHOS41)

6/1/08

The DailyKos entry has quite a few comments, and they're not being totally dismissive! I'm rather surprised by that as I was hoping I was really imagining it.

I don't have a DailyKos account, and I'm saving my pennies to afford buying a new set of wheels. So I guess I'll have to forego the pleasure of the tip jar, whatever that is. Still, thanks for doing this - it's interesting to see the responses!

A "tip jar" is just a way for people to let the diarist know they were there. ;)

DailyKos accounts are free, unless you want to buy a ad-free version -- I didn't. I'm a freebie. I think it takes 24 hours before you can comment, tho.

Becca (SAPPHOS41)

From: Becca (SAPPHOS41)

6/1/08

Eggcellent. I didn't read far enough, then. I went and created an account sappha58, but of course I can't post comments for 24 hours (or diaries for one week.)

>> I went and created an account sappha58, but of course I can't post comments for 24 hours (or diaries for one week.) <<

Cool -- so, tomorrow you could post comments. Most folks may have moved on to other works by then, but a few might still respond.

You ~could~, however, also create a free ePluribus Media account, and post immediately upon receiving the password (or the acknowledgement email or whatever it is).

;)

Peskydang

From: Peskydang

6/2/08

One could argue that the oil companies are trying to punish blue states, or milk them for more money, or whatever.

But if you also overlaid a population map, you'd see that gas prices are higher where population density is greater -- which also happens to be where you get most blue voters.

Lordrag

From: Lordrag

6/2/08

And California adds a boatload of taxes, which inflates the already too-high gas prices.

Meanwhile the oil companies are engaging in price manipulation, making the biggest profits of any business IN HISTORY, and sitting back and laughing while kids die in Iraq and people lose their homes, their jobs, and give up "luxuries" like food so they can put gas in their tanks to get to work.

  • Edited 6/2/2008 11:33 am by LORDRAG
Peskydang

From: Peskydang

6/2/08

A couple of my friends who have inside information about the oil companies suggest that the companies are also caught up in international politics as well, refinery problems, shipping problems, supply problems, etc.  He says it's not *all* the oil companies' fault and it's not all deliberate manipulation, and that their profit is about 8 cents a barrel. 

So while it's easy to blame the oil companies, I think we should take the time to inform ourselves of the facts too.

...and still the profits go up and up

It may not be ONLY the fault of the big international oil co.s, but they sure don't seem to be suffering at all, even with those other issues you mentioned.

Shit floats, and water runs downhill

Lordrag

From: Lordrag

6/2/08

It's interesting that their corporate profits break historical records year after year, however.  SOMEBODY'S making the money.
Peskydang

From: Peskydang

6/2/08

No, I'm not saying the oil companies are innocent. I'm saying that we're not giving ourselves an accurate picture of the situation. We're going for the simplistic analysis that lets us fix blame in one place while ignoring a lot of the other circumstances in play.

There's no question in my mind that the oil companies are guilty of some Enron-scale corruption. But I suspect that it's not happening where most of us assume.

Peskydang

From: Peskydang

6/2/08

Well, there are some new scandals breaking today that should shed some light.

I know the oil companies aren't innocent. It's my thinking that we're looking for the bodies in the wrong part of the pipeline. The oil companies can demonstrate the mechanical facts of why gas costs what it costs.

A friend of mine in the movie business says that you can mostly trust the studios' accounting. Where they screw you is in the details of the contract before you even go to work. That's where I believe the theft can be found.

  • Edited 6/2/2008 2:07 pm by Peskydang
Lordrag

From: Lordrag

6/2/08

I think we're coming to a place where people's anger will only want simplistic targets.  I'm hearing more people joke about vandalizing gas stations, etc., as if it's the gas station owners' fault.  But in anger, people will reach out and hit whoever's closest.  If people could get to these oil companies' CEOS, I'm sure a few tires on their fleets of Hummers and Jaguars and Mercedes' would be slashed.

I think it's happening in other places AS WELL as the big oil co.s...i.e. as you mentioned with pipelines, and del'v'y costs, etc...but it's hard for me to believe that these oil co.s are merely passing along these costs when their profits are so incredibly high.

As we live in a relatively capitalist country, I assume that increased costs in shipping etc are passed on to the consumer, as in any other industry.

But it seems to me that in effect you are absolving the oil co.s of responsibility for the inflated prices we are seeing, and I think they are more responsible for these costs than any other single factor. I think it's so even if you COMBINE all those other factors, as well.

I read today (maybe you posted it, not 100% sure on that though), that world-wide demand has increased on the order of 2%, but that world wide production has increased by 2.5%. In considering these stats, and comparing them to the rate of profit taken by big oil, it doesn't seem right to not consider them as the major source of increased costs as passed along to the consumer.

Peskydang

From: Peskydang

6/2/08

I'm not absolving anybody of anything.  I'm saying that there's much much more to this than we know.
With that, I most certainly agree...was just trying to clarify for my own self, mainly <g>
to be fair, they may not be laughing. they may feel remorse as they turn the gears that cause our kids to die and iraq and people to lose their homes, their jobs, and food. (but still do it anyway).
>> A couple of my friends who have inside information about the oil companies suggest that the companies are also caught up in international politics as well, refinery problems, shipping problems, supply problems, etc. He says it's not *all* the oil companies' fault and it's not all deliberate manipulation, and that their profit is about 8 cents a barrel. <<

That doesn't appear out of sync with a response I got to a recent article on price gouging. Here's the original:

The interesting comment I received was this one:

I'd certainly like to do some additional digging and research, to try and determine where else the profits could be leaking in from, and how the current distribution structure may (or may not) play into it.

Research, retrieval, refinement, sale and distribution are all entire industries -- they don't have a simple, single cost structure anymore, if they ever did. A single company attempting to handle them all would be akin to the wildcatters of old, I think (but that's just a guess), and they've gone the way of the dinosaurs for the most part (appropriately enough, eh?).

>> So while it's easy to blame the oil companies, I think we should take the time to inform ourselves of the facts too. <<

Do you have some suggestions for how we could get a little more information? I'd certainly be interested in further exploration -- it's going to have an impact in both the long and short terms regarding our future energy infrastructure, not to mention every aspect of society and culture that is fueled by the formerly cheap and ubiquitous use of energy built from the petrol empire.
TOP