HWPeeler (HPeeler)

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Citizenship

Started Sep-4 by HWPeeler (HPeeler); 251 views.
HWPeeler (HPeeler)

From: HWPeeler (HPeeler)

Sep-4

Just being born here should not grant citizenship. citizenship and the right to vote should only be granted after taking a class on government and an oath to support the constitution. And yes, this means the constitution needs to be upgraded.

Such a class could be taught at the senior year of high school. military service or in a class given by a government office.

The class should cover the structure of government and an unbiased description of the political parties. Not just a Democrat's view of what a Republican is or a Republican's view of what a Democrat is. Including an oath to support the constitution. Citizenship is not required to live here, but is required to vote. Why let people vote if do not have the wherewithal to understand how the government works. When any fool can vote we elect wrestlers, singers, actors and comedians.

RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Sep-7

Basicly I agree, and your suggestion is the rule here, and possibly a little more broad, where the test, besides law and civics, requires literacy, culture, and even current events.

Examples: I don´t think the U.S. requires that one know the name of the current president or speaker of the house. Here there are geographical questions regarding the differences between

the regions (Canarias is the only one in a different time zone, The Basque country, Galicia, Catalunya, Baleares, Valencia, all have a language other then Spanish (thjus required in school as

a second language [note that the test requires that one can read at least one of Spain´s 4 official languages [I feel that in America, one should have to have sufficient English, to pass the test in English] .The last test I saw here required that noted people, famous or infamous be identified.

Nadal - Tennis (+), the king´s sister, Infanta Christina de Borbon (- former Duchess of Palma, title retired because of corruption)

NB: where king, president, etc. are permanent questions, the cultural or current events questions are updated each year, so only those who read the newspaper, or are currently involved in the culture would be expected to know the answers. Because, the Spanish regions are more independent then those entities called "states" in the U.S. particular cultural elements are avoided - For example flamenco and bull fights are culture in Andalus, but not in Catalunya.

Regarding voting, we have a slightly different standard. As a property owning resident but not a citizen, I pay taxes, So under the context of no taxation without representation, I have the right to vote in local and regional elections, but not national ones. As a result we have an intermediate classification between resident alien and citizen, which is called "empadrament" (this is by municipality) which means if I want to fly or take the ferry to "Spain", I pay about half price for the ticket, however the Muslims across the street who rent, do not own, their residence, must pay full fee, and can not vote in local elections.

HWPeeler (HPeeler)

From: HWPeeler (HPeeler)

Sep-7

Some good ideas in there.

RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Sep-7

Curious, if memory serves me there used to be, especially in the SE a literacy test to qualify voters.

Because of its history in negating Black votes it was chucked. Is that accurate'

If so, it fits into a strange pattern in American law.

Because police abused the right to remain silent, attourney, etc. our solution was the Miranda decision.

However in practice, it allows guilty to go free on such technicalities, as to exact words, how and when applied.

This is but an example of a lot of law in my life time where police or the legislature do not do their job and something

bad happens, the over reaction is often counter productive bad law.

HWPeeler (HPeeler)

From: HWPeeler (HPeeler)

Sep-7

RGoss99 said:

literacy test

Yes. Some would still like to find a way to make that happen.

RGoss99 said:

police abused the right to remain silent

That is harder to do when they have cameras.

RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Sep-8

Remember Miranda was before cameras and tapes were common.

What to me is stupid, pretend I am a cop and have brought some guy in.

Pretend my line goes like this ...

Look we are bringing you in because we suspect you for ...

I have to tell you that you don´t have to talk to us, you can just keep your mouth shut.

If you want advice we have to make sure you have a lawyer, because what ever you tell us

could be used to help convict you.

There have been cases, where all the constitutional elements are there in my dialogue, the

case could be chucked because I did not accurately follow the oficial script.

HWPeeler (HPeeler)

From: HWPeeler (HPeeler)

Sep-8

I would agree the wording is important. Read it straight from the card.

RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Sep-8

While I agree that the wording is important, if the wording used is not ambiguous, there is no reason why a criminal should get off on a technicality.

HWPeeler (HPeeler)

From: HWPeeler (HPeeler)

Sep-8

Do you leave the definition of ambiguous up to the defense attorney? Was it just kind of casually mentioned by someone in the room not talking to the suspect at the time? Did he have the suspect's full attention?

So many things the attorney could call wrong.

Clothahump

From: Clothahump

Sep-11

HWPeeler (HPeeler) said...

Just being born here should not grant citizenship. citizenship and the right to vote should only be granted after taking a class on government and an oath to support the constitution. And yes, this means the constitution needs to be upgraded.

Agree with the first sentence.  Disagree with the second.  Kind of agree with the third.

What we need is a Constitutional amendment that redefines citizenship through parentage.  Plain and simple:  at the time of the child's birth, the child's mother needs to be a citizen or be married to a citizen.  And that can be a citizen via birth or naturalization.  This eliminates anchor babies completely and makes the physical place of birth in the world completely immaterial.

And yes, we do need to bring classes in Civics back into our schools.

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