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Should our desert communities make water from air?   The Consumer You: Marketplace

Started 6/30/21 by Showtalk; 12011 views.
WALTER784 said:

Tell me now... where is the science in this? It sounds only like political science without any proof. You're likely to get COVID regardless of whether you've been vaccinated or not. You're gonna be a COVID spreader if you get it regardless of whether you've been vaccinated or not.

Infection severity and likelihood vs vaccination status are coming from doctors working the ICUs and local hospitals. At ORMC in Odessa, Texas, they have had zero admissions among those who are vaccinated. Every single one as of last week was unvaccinated.

Numbers are similar at Midland Memorial Hospital, but with one.

The friend of mine with the breakthrough infection said they said he's pretty much over it, but he gets to stay home for another couple of weeks and then get a PCR test done to see if he's still infectious. And they did sequence his case and confirmed it's the Delta variant.

There probably are a few percent of the vaccinated who got breakthrough infections that are asymptomatic, and the lion's share of those are the Delta variant, where the time and effort was done to actually sequence their viral sample.

Most who are vaccinated and don't get a massive load of exposure, don't develop Covid. But it's like wearing a rain coat. It might keep you dry in a normal rainstorm. If you are hit with a hurricane force wind and rain falling at a foot per minute, you're gonna get wet. If you are vaccinated but go to that packed concert, you have a much greater chance of getting exposed to enough virus to break through the defenses.

Sort of like in a war. A few Nazi troops going up against a whole division of Allies are not going to be a problem. But then you have a huge push, and you might have a Battle of the Bulge. It takes a lot more to fight the invasion back.

Showtalk said:

I saw a young adult I know who had Covid for 5 weeks 17 months ago and still has health problems. This person got vaccinated, and said it’s a terrible disease that no one should ever want to get.

Probably those who have had the disease and then gotten vaccinated, have had their immune system primed an extra bit for any future exposure. No one really knows how long vaccination or even having had the disease conveys immunity or reduced susceptibility, but compared to various other disease histories in the past, it's pretty effective, with far lower risks from vaccine reactions than many others in the past.

The actual vaccine is just a masquerade protein spike patterned after the virus. A doctor here compared it much to the "wanted" posters on the post office walls in the old days - to prime people to be on the lookout for the bad guys - or the enemy aircraft and ship identification silhouette books issued to troops, so they can man the guns more quickly when something is spotted on the horizon, and thus be ready with them in their sights, and able to open fire before they can inflict too much damage.

WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

8/6/21

Antibody tests offered today only test for 1 single COVID germ within your entire body. 1 single germ could have been inhaled, but never infected you what so ever... but that 1 single germ itself is detected and thus they say you've had COVID in the past.

They don't know how many parts per hundred or per thousand or per million germs are in your body. They also don't know what the average number of germs are for one is actually affected... (i.e. not just 1 single germ, but a quorum of xxx COVID germs before one actually shows symptoms). 

So yes and no... they can test for either positive or negative... but that positive doesn't mean that you've had COVID and gotten over it... it just means that they've diagnosed at least 1 (or perhaps more) COVID germs in your body but even then, they cannot tell you how many COVID germs they're detected. Only whether you had it in your body in the past or not.

That is not a REAL antibody test.

FWIW

WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

8/6/21

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

Infection severity and likelihood vs vaccination status are coming from doctors working the ICUs and local hospitals. At ORMC in Odessa, Texas, they have had zero admissions among those who are vaccinated. Every single one as of last week was unvaccinated.

Numbers are similar at Midland Memorial Hospital, but with one.

The friend of mine with the breakthrough infection said they said he's pretty much over it, but he gets to stay home for another couple of weeks and then get a PCR test done to see if he's still infectious. And they did sequence his case and confirmed it's the Delta variant.

There probably are a few percent of the vaccinated who got breakthrough infections that are asymptomatic, and the lion's share of those are the Delta variant, where the time and effort was done to actually sequence their viral sample.

Most who are vaccinated and don't get a massive load of exposure, don't develop Covid. But it's like wearing a rain coat. It might keep you dry in a normal rainstorm. If you are hit with a hurricane force wind and rain falling at a foot per minute, you're gonna get wet. If you are vaccinated but go to that packed concert, you have a much greater chance of getting exposed to enough virus to break through the defenses.

Sort of like in a war. A few Nazi troops going up against a whole division of Allies are not going to be a problem. But then you have a huge push, and you might have a Battle of the Bulge. It takes a lot more to fight the invasion back.

Israel is reporting something entirely different:

"95% of the severe patients are vaccinated". "85-90% of the hospitalizations are in Fully vaccinated people." "We are opening more and more COVID wards." "The effectiveness of the vaccine is waning/fading out" (Dr. Kobi Haviv, earlier today on Chanel 13 @newsisrael13)

?"95% of the severe patients are vaccinated". "85-90% of the hospitalizations are in Fully vaccinated people." "We are opening more and more COVID wards." "The effectiveness of the vaccine is waning/fading out" (Dr. Kobi Haviv, earlier today on Chanel 13 @newsisrael13 ) https://t.co/SpLZewiRpQ? / Twitter

FWIW

WALTER784 said:

Antibody tests offered today only test for 1 single COVID germ within your entire body.

They run it through too many PCR amplification stages. That has been a problem since the beginning.

Allegedly if they suspect an active infection now, they let it run for many fewer stages, maybe around 14 to 16 doubling steps less, which requires between 16,384 to 65,536 Covid viruses to trigger a positive test.

With Delta infections producing a load of 1000x or so of whatever prior strains would produce, the less sensitive set tests are going to have a more reliable detection if someone is really infected.

They're learning.

And now they aren't bothering to test unless there's symptoms or a need to be sure one isn't infected.

So nowadays, more of the positive tests are real positives, and far fewer false positives.

Then antibody tests, which are quite specific, are useful not only to tell if someone has been infected in the past, but also if they have been vaccinated, since the vaccine itself introduces a fake virus look-alike to trigger antibody production in anticipation of future virus exposure.

A positive antibody test is very much like a positive tuberculosis test. It means you have been exposed to something that triggered antibody production. Then a test for the virus distinguishes a vaccination or prior infection versus an active infection.

And if there is an active infection, there has to be more than one virus to get enough to sequence the genome to identify the strain.

Maybe the vaccine there was administered too late, and exposure happened before the immune system had fully gotten primed to repel an infection.

They warned us here with the Phizer one that after you get your first shot, you are still somewhat susceptible. After the 2nd shot, it takes another couple of weeks to truly have sufficient immunity, and an early infection will still knock you on your butt.

Once it's about 2 to 6 weeks past the 2nd shot, then breakthrough infections here are quite rare.

Of course all of it is a dice roll. Vaccines load the dice in your favor as far as risk of actual infection, ,and of the severity if you get a breakthrough infection.

A few percent are still going to get a breakthrough infection, but those odds are far better than totally unprotected.

Kind of like how we learned that a condom is only about 85% effective - most of that is the probability of it breaking if things get too vigorous, or one doesn't extract everything properly afterwards.

If it doesn't break or leak or spill, the probability of an unwanted pregnancy becomes so low that you'd wonder if it was another miraculous immaculate conception if it happens.

Of course the knuckle draggers who would probably get too wild and break one, are the ones who then struggled financially with all those consequential expenses and years of exhaustion followed by college costs and the "boomerang kids" that move back in until they turn 40 or so.

WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

8/7/21

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

They run it through too many PCR amplification stages. That has been a problem since the beginning.

And it's still a problem as they've done nothing to correct that problem.

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

Allegedly if they suspect an active infection now, they let it run for many fewer stages, maybe around 14 to 16 doubling steps less, which requires between 16,384 to 65,536 Covid viruses to trigger a positive test.

Allegedly... yeah... that sure gives me a lot of confidence!!!

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

With Delta infections producing a load of 1000x or so of whatever prior strains would produce, the less sensitive set tests are going to have a more reliable detection if someone is really infected.

That's just it... they are not measuring the load... so they have no way of knowing what prior strains produced. And as such, their reliability is still quite low... even though you said "more reliable"!

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

So nowadays, more of the positive tests are real positives, and far fewer false positives.

But last year... they were counting the false positives as well to purposefully inflate the actual numbers. As if they knew prior that many false positives were being produced but not mentioning it. But now that others have discovered those false positives, they have to come clean and perform less tests but even then... we don't know how many false positives are still being counted. They're not that forthcoming with the true data.

There is still a lot that must be learned about COVID and the newer delta strains as well as continued research into vaccines that may work better for the delta variant. 

And as they've not yet tested the load... that too needs to be completed as well.

In the mean time, including the information they've hidden in the past along with we don't know what they might still be hiding and the false positives and the less that expected results of the delta variant, we're to blindly believe and do exactly what the government says and take this "experimental" drug? 

FWIW

WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

8/7/21

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

Maybe the vaccine there was administered too late, and exposure happened before the immune system had fully gotten primed to repel an infection.

They warned us here with the Phizer one that after you get your first shot, you are still somewhat susceptible. After the 2nd shot, it takes another couple of weeks to truly have sufficient immunity, and an early infection will still knock you on your butt.

Once it's about 2 to 6 weeks past the 2nd shot, then breakthrough infections here are quite rare.

Israel started their first Phizer vaccinations on Dec 19, 2020 and by Jun 26, 2021, more than 64% of their population had already been fully vaccinated. I heard later that they were up to 79% or 80% vaccinated by the end of Jul, 2021.

They are now administering a 3rd shot due to the high infection rate from those who have already been vaccinated.

FWIW

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

8/8/21

A friend works in a hospital and their ER has no covid cases, unlike a year ago, when it was constantly at max capacity.

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

8/8/21

That is a good description.

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