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College Degree? (See next post for de...   The Serious You: How Current Events Affect You

Started Aug-10 by WALTER784; 8624 views.
WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

Aug-12

$1,661.87 in cats (ROCKETMAN_S) said...

Getting on at Fakebook or Google is likely much tougher than getting into West Point or Annapolis or the Air Force Academy

Yep... and they already know whether you're conservative or liberal and thus the conservatives will not be chosen.

FWIW

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Aug-12

Actually it’s not. I know of people who were hired by them as a first or second job. Some had connections, all had degrees.

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Aug-12

You have extensively technical knowledge and skill. I would have guessed from your posts that you have a degree.  I have college degrees yet most of my experience came from self research and learning. Even in technical fields most actual job experience comes from on the job learning.  I know a lot of tech type people. They learn skills like engineering or programming in classes but application is all learned on the job.  It is supposed to be that way.

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Aug-12

It’s work ethic. Showing up for work on time, regularly and doing a good job.  I meant to mention it in a previous post but military technical training is like going to college.

WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

Aug-12

Showtalk said...

You have extensively technical knowledge and skill. I would have guessed from your posts that you have a degree.

Well, I think it's due to my experience and my self-study that has propelled me. With only a high school diploma, I've gone over the $100,000/yr. salary mark for quite a number of years.

Showtalk said...

Even in technical fields most actual job experience comes from on the job learning.

Well, the Navy game me quite a bit of education and OJT, since then, I've just applied what I learned from direct experience and continued to expand my knowledge. Initially, my studies were from buying $200 ~ $300 books because the internet wasn't yet available. But as the internet started to boom... I found much more information for free or for just pennies compared to what used to cost quite a bit of money. I just harvested as much as I could and tuned it towards anything that could help me perform better. And it all paid off for me. 

The jobs I've landed, the projects I've participated in, the unfathomably difficult problems I've been able to discover using my skills, the next projects which those previous results propelled me into and the results of those which propelled me into the following jobs/projects, etc. were all just unbelievably easy for me... but yet as complex as complexity can get for just about anybody else. 

I just used pure machine logic from a human brain perspective and was able to discover things that nobody else had been able to do. And I was always clinging on to the bleeding edge of technology to boot so that I would be ready for what ever else came down the road... so that I would be prepared for it to.

It all served me fine... 45 years, nice salary, raised 3 kids (now 42, 39 and 32 yrs old), mortgage paid off 7 years ago, nice savings and retirement is beautiful. All I have to do is wake up and go to sleep... what time doesn't matter... any/everything else... is what ever I please to do that day! Go deep sea fishing, go swimming, go to the local sauna, mow the yard, go shopping, what ever. No more work required.

Showtalk said...

I know a lot of tech type people. They learn skills like engineering or programming in classes but application is all learned on the job.  It is supposed to be that way.

I started out with programming (Assembly, C-language, BASIC, Pascal, etc.) but the programming languages were always changing. They used to be Fortran and Cobol. Then all the other languages came out and even with C... it transformed into C+ and then C++ and then SQL, Java, HTML, Flash, Python, etc. etc. etc. came out. You always have to learn a new language.

So I moved from programming to Operating systems, but then you had IBM's CICS and TSO and then MS-DOS came out which bread to Windows 3.0, Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 98, Win 98/SE, Win NT3.51 Win NT4.0, Win 2000, Win XP, you name it and I didn't even mention the Unix/Linux versions of HP-UX, BSD, Sun Microsystem's SUN workstation, IBM's AS/400, Digital Equipment's VAX, IBM's OS-2 and OS-2/Warp, Novell 2.15, Novell 3.0, Novell 386, Novell 486, Novell 586, Fedora, Ubuntu, CentOS, etc. just to name a few. But then there too... the operating systems were all entirely different and you had to relearn each and everything about them.

Thus I finally decided to go into the network related sector (repeaters, bridges, switches and routers) and then later added on firewalls, proxy servers, DNS servers, VPN encryption and authentication devices etc. Now this arena was much much much more stable than either operating systems or programming languages. 10MBPs ethernet advanced to 100Mbps to 1000Mbps, to 10000Mbps, etc. but the basic ethernet itself didn't change. A few new fancy features were added, but the basics were all the same. Most of what I learned about Ethernet in 1986 is still useable today in 2021!

And then even more so... there is security... security is all about 3 things (secrecy, integrity & authentication). And all 3 of them have been around for thousands of years... YES... much much much longer than computers.

Secrecy: Things were kept secret by locking the contents in vaults which were locked with keys or other things. The Pharos of Egypt entombed their designers of the tomb inside the pyramid itself. Because the designer created numerous false entrances and only one really true entrance. Only the designer knew the design so the Pharos entombed the designer inside the pyramid itself so that the real entrance to all of the Pharos treasures would be sealed with the Pharos themselves. Encryption was also used to keep things secret. It initially started by just shifting a few letters in Greek, Hebrew, etc. and finally grew into the complex DES, 3DES, Triple DES and AES we have today.

Integrity: Kings of olden days, when they wanted to send a letter to another king of another country something, they wanted to ensure that what they sent was not intercepted and replaced with something else. So each of the kings came up with their own specially colored wax and seals which was only shared between each of the kings. That way, each of the kings could compare the sealed wax color as well as the seal to ensure the contents were in tact. Had somebody opened the envelope, the was seal would have been cracked/broken and only the king had the wax and the seal that was used to seal it.

Authentication: Kings castles of old had moats around them. The would only lower the drawbridge when a special pass phrase (password today) was called out. And those pass phrases were changed regularly too... even back then. Today, we use MD-3/4/5, SHA-1/SHA-2, etc. authentication methods.

So security has been around for thousands of years and will continue to be so. The actual methods might change a little but the basics are still the same.

Has the content been modified (integrity), has anybody else seen the content (secrecy) and who delivered the content (authentication).

So that's where I planted my stakes... network & security. And it all paid off without me having to re-learn everything all over again as is with the programming and operating system arena.

And with that... I rest my case!

I lived a good life, and it did good for me and by me... and now... I'm reaping the rewards of what I've sewn and have absolutely no regrets about it!

And all... with only a high school diploma to boot! (* BIG GRIN *)

FWIW

  • Edited August 12, 2021 1:10 pm  by  WALTER784
WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

Aug-12

Showtalk said...

I meant to mention it in a previous post but military technical training is like going to college.

Yes... it's equivalent... but it's not a diploma for jobs that require a diploma!

But on another note... jobs that require a driver's license... think about it. I started driving at age 12 (of course sitting on my grandfather's lap, but without a driver's license). I got my driver's license at age 15... yep... you shouldn't be able to get a license until you're 16... but I got mine 90 days before I turned 16. And I passed with flying colors... the teacher was really surprised.

But back to the point... You're hiring taxi drivers. You have this 10 year veteran driver with a no accident record and this 22 year old who just got his license last week (i.e. a paper driver). Or perhaps, you have this 45 year old who got their license when they were 18 but hasn't driven in ages). Who would you hire? In this case, the 10 year veteran with no accident record who drives daily would usually win the job. Except in the US. Because the 22 year old who just got their license is a minority and due to diversity... you must hire them!!! (* BARF *)

Paper degrees, paper licenses... etc. all mean nothing without experience.

When you can show time and again, astonishing things which you've accomplished without a college degree, customers, employers will usually choose the accomplishments.

I have one very different example. My company wanted to outsource me to a customer. But the customer required that I have a valid Cisco CCIE certificate. I had a valid CCIE certificate about 4 years prior to that but renewing that certificate each year costed my company $6,000. But the company's customer insisted that I had a valid CCIE certificate.

I was a manager in that company and spoke with the directors and told them that if that customer wanted to ignore my 12 years experience over a paper holding CCIE novice... that they shouldn't be our customer. Management agreed and we turned that customer down. They didn't turn me down... my company turned the customer down. And that was a good call too because that customer made the local news because the paper CCIE they did finally hire, apparently caused a security breach due to his lack of knowledge several years later. (* LOL *) Some call that karma!!!

FWIW

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Aug-12

You have the equivalent of several degrees of knowledge and a facility for all kinds of language, both human and computer.  Very impressive!  

Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Aug-12

Your taxi example doesn’t take into account that as a country, we should encourage and help young adults find careers and starting jobs.  It shouldn’t be either or. It would be best if all young adults who want to work can find jobs, no matter what race, ethnicity or beliefs.

WALTER784

From: WALTER784 

Aug-12

Showtalk said...

Your taxi example doesn’t take into account that as a country, we should encourage and help young adults find careers and starting jobs

Well, the taxi example does show that not only a degree, but also practical experience are what's necessary to get a good job.

And right out of college, most kids don't have any practical experience unless they worked part time somewhere or unless their parents/relatives allowed them into their company and see how things are done.

For most kids, working part time would probably not really have much to do with what ever major they're interested in unless they are one of the very very very luck few. As for the rest... simple things like showing up for work on time... regardless of the job. Coming in late, not showing up for work, taking too many days off, etc. are ALL detrimental to one's reference for work. 

Another thing... just ONLY doing what one is told to do and doing a half-ass job at that won't get you very far either. One should strive to improve... and that improve could be both their own abilities as well as things they see within the company which they think could be improved upon and done better. That will excel them into better positions and give a good reference on their raport.

Showtalk said...

It would be best if all young adults who want to work can find jobs, no matter what race, ethnicity or beliefs.

Race, ethnicity and beliefs shouldn't be a problem today. But for young adults to find jobs, they require a few basic minimal skills... reading, writing and arithmetic being the most essential. Many kids who graduate high school today, cannot even perform those basic fundamental skills proficiently. Our school system has failed our children. Kids who graduate today (high school or college), are lacking many skills that they should have been taught in school. 

Another problem is... companies want experienced people, but those right out of high school or college have little to no practical experience. Therefore, these new graduates have to find a company that will take them without much experience. But the kids don't want to take those kinds of jobs because they have their degrees... they just lack experience. So schools should have taught these kids that they're going to have to do some kind of work they may not want to at first to gain the practical experience necessary to get into the professions they want to get into.

And then don't forget the companies themselves. Some companies offer in-house training for their employees. This is the best type of company to work for. But many companies have stopped offering in-house training because often times, it can take 2 ~ 3 years for one to garner certain skills. But when students join a company, spend 2 years in training and then just up and leave for the competition... the company who gave the training doesn't get back from that employee what they put into train them. And thus many companies have stopped doing in-house training because it's not profitable if employees just quit right after they receive their training.

But back to practical experience. I started mowing lawns in my neighborhood at age 12. The neighbors all knew me and thus paid me to mow their lawn. $3 ~ $5 per yard depending on the size and number of obstacles in their yard. They pointed out to me that I missed here or there and asked that I go back and do those places which I missed. That taught me to check my own work first and then tell them I was finished. That improved the customer's satisfaction as well as the customer referring me to other neighbors. By the time I was 16... I was making upward of $250/mo. just mowing lawns.

At age 16, I got my driver's license and found a job at a Taco Tico restaurant. I started out washing dishes and wiping down tables and sweeping/mopping the floors. I soon graduated to the kitchen where they had me fill the tortilla shells with meat, vegetables topped with the sauce the customer wanted and then wrapped in the right paper that showed which sauce was on it. Finally, they taught me how to use the grill and I started frying the meat that was used. I learned how to do inventory, write order slips for items we were running low on, etc. And all of that was before I graduated high school.

I did mention McDonald's earlier in one of my posts, because they do offer in-house training and it can do wonders for picking up basic skills.

The problem with most kids today is either they can't (lacking skills) or don't want to do (have the skills but just don't like the job they were told to do) any kind of tedious/mundane work.

Sometimes, some of those tedious or mundane jobs are like the movie Karate Kid... where Miyagi Sensei (teacher) had him paint a picket fence over and over again to build up his arm muscles so he could better block his opponents. But initially, he didn't realize that he was actually getting the skills he needed to succeed.

Not every job is fun. Sometimes you have to do things you don't like or want to do. But unless it's dangerous or against your religious beliefs, you should accept it, do the job to the best of your ability and move on.

Finally, sometimes, there are more people for a job than there are actual jobs themselves. That can vary from sector to sector depending on the type of job. 

Like I said above. I started out lawn mowing when I was 12, at 16 worked part time at a restaurant and from 19 joined the US Navy. Since then, I switched jobs 7 times... each for a nice pay raise, but upon joining each new company, I went out of my way to prove my worth to the company and all of them gave me high ranking marks for my performance because I really helped each and every company I worked for improve their businesses while also improving my technical and practical experience working for them.

FWIW

  • Edited August 12, 2021 11:10 pm  by  WALTER784
Showtalk
Host

From: Showtalk 

Aug-13

Schools have one job. To teach children knowledge they need to get by in life. Math. Reading. History.  Science If they can’t do that, they are useless.

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