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Did Israel Steal Palestinian Land? (S...   The Serious You: How Current Events Affect You

Started Oct-31 by WALTER784; 1897 views.

Poll Question From WALTER784


Did Israel Steal Palestinian Land? (See next post for details)
  • Yes3  votes
  • I don't know6  votes
  • No17  votes
  • Other (Please explain)1  vote
I don't know 
Other (Please explain) 
In reply toRe: msg 1

From: WALTER784 


Did Israel Steal Palestinian Land?



From: Nucc 


This topic would help people have a little better idea about the land of Israel, once we look into the history we have about the origin the family of Abram (Abraham) who originally were Chaldeans from the Babylonian Sumerian state city of Ur. Today this would be IRAQ.  So they weren't Jews originally.

Bible Map: Mesopotamia

Biblical history tells us that...God called out to Abram...

Gen 12:1-3

1 The Lord had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you

2 "I WILL make you into a GREAT NATION     (ISRAEL)


Gen 23:17-20

17 So Ephron's field in Machpelah near Mamre — both the field and the cave in it, and all the trees within the borders of the field — WAS DEEDED

18 to ABRAHAM AS HIS PROPERTY in the PRESENCE of ALL the HITTITES  who had come to the gate of the city.

19 AFTERWORD ABRAHAM BURIED his wife SARAH in the cave in the field of Machpelah near Mamre (which is at HEBRON) in the LAND of CANAAN.

20 So the field and the cave in it WERE DEEDED to ABRAHAM by the HITTITES as a burial site.   NIV

Map of Hebron | Reading the Bible Chronologically in 365 days

* So it's NOT the Israelites, that are the OCCUPIERS, it is the SATANIST HATERS of the GOD of Israel because Israel's ABRAHAM was HISTORICALLY DEEDED the land.

*So if you're protesting anti-Semitic against Israel, consider yourself CURSED. However the GOD of Israel allows forgiveness but only through Jesus Christ (a Jew) who died paying the price for the sins of ALL MANKIND

John 3:16


In reply toRe: msg 3

From: WALTER784 


I guess that depends on the timeline of when those maps were depicting because the maps have changed over time.

I've seen over 40 Biblical maps from 2500BC onward. So, what timeframe did you get those maps from to put this into perspective?



From: Nucc 


That's a fair question but I don't really understand it.   Did the location of Mesopotamia, Ur, or Hebron move at some time?  Today it is known as Iraq, and Hebron was were it is now, but the actual locations didn't move.  However, the >> Abrahamic Covenant (Gen 12:1-3)<< according to Biblical sources was made close to 2100 BCE.  It is an EVERLASTING COVENANT.

Luke in the New Testament book of Acts around 50 CE resounded Abraham's call.

Acts 7:2-8
 2.."Brothers and fathers, listen to me! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran.

3 'Leave your country and your people,' God said, 'and go to the land I will show you.' 

4 "So he left the land of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran. After the death of his father, God sent him to this land where you are now living.

5 He gave him no inheritance here, not even a foot of ground. But God promised him that he and his descendants after him would possess the land, even though at that time Abraham had no child.

6 God spoke to him in this way: 'Your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years.

7 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves,' God said, 'and afterward they will come out of that country and worship me in this place.' 

8 Then he gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision. And Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised him eight days after his birth. Later Isaac became the father of Jacob, and Jacob became the father of the twelve patriarchs.         NIV


However, while God made an EVERLASTING COVENANT with the NATION of  ISRAEL, ...NOT ALL people born Jewish ARE Jewish.

Rom 9:6-7

7 NOR because they are his DESCENDANTS are they all Abraham's children. ON the CONTRARY, "It is THROUGH ISAAC that YOUR OFFSPRING WILL BE RECKONED.      NIV

*This means that ONLY the MESSIANIC JEW  (followers of Christ) are the TRUE JEWS presently.

I acknowledge, it's a lot to take in BUT I've been at this for 54 years and I still ACTUALLY KNOW so very little, but it's a life very worthwhile  living and it lasts forever.

In reply toRe: msg 5

From: WALTER784 


You start at Genesis 12 with Abraham and quote a lot from the New Testament too. 

Let's go back 2 chapters to Genesis 10 and the nations mentioned with Noah and how they were spread out across the continent.


Map of the Origin of Nations and Races that were dispersed by God in Genesis 10

The big question of how all the nations and races began and what was the origin of all civilization can be answered in Genesis chapter 10. The Bible reveals that every race upon the earth originated with the three sons of Noah; Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Genesis 10 lists a total of 70 original founders of the nations of the world or racial groups. They are all divided into 3 primary classifications: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Although the subject of the classification of the nations and the origin of languages is highly controversial, ethnologists agree on one key point: that all of mankind can be divided into three basic groups.

Historical Background

Noah and the Flood

According to the Bible, around 4600 years ago the entire world was destroyed by a flood except for Noah and his family. The flood lasted 40 days and 40 nights and after 150 days Noah's Ark rested upon Mount Ararat. After 2 1/2 more months the tops of the mountains became visible, and 40 days later Noah sent a dove and a Raven. The dove returned, and seven days later Noah sent forth the dove once again and this time it returned with an olive leaf. After seven more days the Dove sent forth once again and it did not return. Noah finally served that the water had receded enough for him to venture forth. He had been in the ark for over a year, and after departing he built an altar and made a sacrifice. The Lord was pleased with Noah's offering and spoke to Noah saying that he would never again destroy the world by water, and the rainbow appeared as a sign of his promise to all of mankind.

For nearly 100 years Noah's family increased in numbers and prospered. They soon began to migrate according to God's promise to be fruitful and fill the earth.

The Tower of Babel

All of mankind at that time gathered in the Persian Gulf region at a place called Babel, and it was here that they followed a leader named Nimrod and built a tower to reach to heaven. It was here that they rebelled against God, and the Lord miraculously scattered them by changing their languages (confusion of tongues) and races in order to forcibly distribute them over the face of the year (Genesis 11:1-9).

Shem, Ham, and Japheth

The sons of Noah were Shem, Ham, and Japheth... these three sons of Noah represented the three great races of mankind. The above map shows a table of God's dispersion of the nation's after they migrated from the Tower at Babel.

Shem (Asia)

Shem (Heb. "Name") was Noah's oldest son and part of Noah's family of eight who survived the great flood. Shem and his wife were childless before the flood, but after the flood Shem bore a son at 110 years of age. He was father to five sons who became the fathers of the five Semitic nations as shown below. Shem was actually the father of the nations of the ancient Near East including the Israelites and the Jewish religion, and therefore Judaism, Islam, and Christianity sprang from the line of Shem. The Semites were particularly known for their religious zeal.

The Five Semitic Nations:

1. Elam (The Persians) settled northeast of the Persian Gulf.

2. Asshur (The Assyrians) the Biblical name for Assyria, settled between the Euphrates and Tigris Rivers.

3. Arphaxad (The Babylonians) settled in Chaldea.

4. Lud (The Lydians) settled in Asia Minor, but some of them sailed across the Mediterranean and settled in northern Africa.

5. Aram (The Syrians) the Biblical name for Syria, located north and east of Israel.

Ham (Africa)

Ham (Heb. "hot" or "Black") was Noah's second oldest son and part of the family of eight who survived the great flood. Ham and his wife bore 4 sons who became the fathers of the nations of Africa. Ham's fourth son Canaan was prophetically cursed because he gazed at his fathers nakedness while he was drunk. This curse would mean later that Canaan would lose his land to the Hebrews and would be subservient to the descendants of Shem. The Hamites were known for their physical endurance.

The Four Hamitic Nations:

1. Cush (The Ethiopians) settled in Ethiopia south of Egypt, also early in their history some of them migrated to an area north of the Persian Gulf (Gen. 10:8-10).

2. Mizraim (The Egyptians) the Bible name for Egypt, settled in northeastern Africa.

3. Phut (The Libyans) sometimes translated Libya, settled in northern Africa.

4. Canaan (The Canaanites) settled above Africa east of the Mediterranean (Later was given to the Hebrews).

Japheth (Europe)

Japheth (Heb. "God will Enlarge)") was Noah's third oldest son and part of the family of eight who survived the great flood. Japheth and Shem were both greatly blessed for respecting their father Noah. Noah's blessing on Japheth was far reaching for all of his descendants being the European (Caucasian) nations that were mentioned in Genesis 10. The Japhethites were known for their intellectual activity.

The Seven Japhetic Nations:

I. Gomer (The Cimmerians) settled north of the Black Sea, but afterwards his descendants probably occupied Germany, France, Spain and the British Isles.

2. Magog (The Scythians) lived north of the Caspian Sea.

3. Madai (The Medes) settled south of the Caspian Sea.

4. Javan (The Ionians or Greeks) Javan is the Hebrew name for Greeks, they settled in Greece.

5. Tubal (The Turks) lived south of the Black Sea.

6. Meshech (The Slavs) lived between the Black and Caspian Seas,

7. Tiras (The Etruscans) located west of the Black Sea.

The Table of Nations - Bible History (bible-history.com)


  • Edited November 11, 2023 11:10 pm  by  WALTER784

From: Nucc 


Isn't the topic about Israel & Palestine?

In reply toRe: msg 5

From: WALTER784 


Here is another Map of the Land of Israel in Old Testament Times and how it was divided to the 12 tribes of Israel.

Map of the Natural Features of the Land of Ancient Israel

During Old Testament times Israel was referred to originally as the land of Canaan, which was the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. The entire land of Canaan was approximately 6,6oo square miles. Later when the land was conquered by the Israelites under Joshua it was divided to the 12 tribes of Israel. The total area consisted of around 12,000 square miles, from Syria in the east to the Mediterranean Sea in the west, and from Mount Hermon in the north to the Arabian Desert in the south. It was not until the time of king David that the land promised to Abraham, the first Hebrew (Genesis 13:14-15) was greatly fulfilled, from the River of Egypt in the south to the Euphrates in the east.

The Natural Divisions (Five Great Divisions)

There were five natural divisions laying parallel to each other running through the entire land from north to south. The Maritime Plain, The Shephelah, The Hill Country, The Jordan Valley, and the Eastern Mountain Range.

1. The Maritime Plain was a very fertile region located along the western shores of the Mediterranean Sea. the thin strip of land was nearly 10 miles wide extending from Phoenicia in the north to Philistia in the south. The Maritime Plain actually was divided into 3 main sections: Phoenicia to Mount Carmel in the north, Sharon in the middle, and Philistia in the south.

2. The Shephelah were the fertile foothills between the Maritime Plain and the Hill Country.

3. The Hill Country, or mountain region were part of the mountains of Lebanon, and they were naturally divided into four regions: Upper Galilee in the north, below that was Lower Galilee, the Mountains of Judah, and the Hills of the Negeb Desert.

4. The Jordan Valley, which follows the Jordan River descending into a gorge which continues to descend into the deepest land trench, 1300 feet below sea level.

5 . The Eastern Mountain Range, situated east of the Jordan River were fertile mountains naturally divided into 3 sections: Bashan in the north, Gilead in the middle, and Moab in the south.

The Rivers and Seas (Rivers, Lakes, and Brooks)

There were many Rivers, lakes, and mountain streams in Old Testament Israel.

Israel's Major Rivers and Seas

1. The Jordan River has its source in three places near Mount Hermon. The main source of the Jordan River is 1800 feet above sea level, and it flows downward to the south winding through the Jordan Valley and finally empties into the Dead Sea which is 1300 feet below sea level. It is very windy, perhaps 200 miles of twist and turns, while the actual distance is perhaps 135 miles from Mount Hermon to the Dead Sea in a straight line.

2. Lake Merom was a triangular shaped lake situated in Upper Galilee, it was about 3 miles distance across the lake.

3. The Sea of Galilee was also known as the Sea of Tiberias, and the Sea of Chinnereth. It was shaped like a pear, and it was 14 miles across. The Sea of Galilee was 700 feet below sea level in Biblical times.

4. The Dead Sea was 46 miles long and 10 miles wide. In Bible times the Dead Sea was just as salty as it is today. It is also 1300 feet below sea level and was the place of many events in Biblical times.

Rivers and Streams East of the Jordan flowing westward:

5. The Jarmuk River flowed into the Jordan River near the south of the Sea of Galilee.

6. The Jabbok River flowed into the Jordan River a little more than half way toward the Dead Sea. It was near this stream that the Jacob wrestled with the Angel of the Lord (Genesis 32:22).

7. The Arnon River also flowed westward but into the Dead Sea forming the boundary between Israel and Moab (Joshua 13:15, 16).

8. The Zered Brook also flowed into the Dead Sea at the southern end forming the boundary between Moab and Edom. It was at this stream that Israel began the conquest of Canaan (Deuteronomy 2:13, 14).

Rivers and Streams West of the Jordan flowing eastward:

9. The Farah River flowed east and empties into the Jordan River near Shechem and just east of Mount Gerizim. It was also called the Waters of Aenon, and was the location which the Bible mentioned where John the Baptist baptized (John 3:23).

10. The Brook Cherith flowed into the Jordan River at the very north portion of the Dead Sea. This is the brook where Elijah was hid and fed by the ravens (1 Kings 17:3)

11. The Brook Kidron flowed between Jerusalem and the Mount of Olives eastward emptying into the Dead Sea (John 18:1).

Rivers and Streams West of the Jordan flowing into the Mediterranean.

12. The Leontes River was the northernmost river which flowed westward into the Mediterranean Sea. It was the northern boundary of Israel, situated east of the city of Dan.

13. The Kishon River was the river which drained the Plain of Esdraelon and emptying into the Mediterranean Sea just north of Mount Carmel. The Bible reveals in the Old Testament that this river destroyed part of Sisera's army (Judges 5:21).

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In reply toRe: msg 7

From: WALTER784 


Nucc said...

Isn't the topic about Israel & Palestine?

More or less, Israel and the area "claimed" to be Palestine but there is no such place as Palestine today. And there never was a country called Palestine either. And initially, it wasn't control by the Arabs either. 

On another note, neither of your maps depict Israel (or the old Palestine area) in its entirety. See the picture below for details. So, to show you how little your maps include Israel, I've overlayed them on a current Google map for reference. Babylonia, Babylon and the Mespotamia are all in Iraq. And note: Israel's west cost is the Mediterranean Sea which is not even depicted on your first map. Secondly, Babylon was east of Kirkuk, Iraq. That's nowhere near where Israel is.

Your second picture shows only areas around the Dead Sea which leaves out northern and southern Israel too.

So as we're discussing Israel, you should show maps of Israel... or the older area called Palestine. The blue circle on the map is Israel.

I also posted you a follow up of the areas mainly around Israel and the 12 tribes that inhabited it in the old times too. I just wanted you and others to see what areas we're talking about in a correct perspective.


  • Edited November 12, 2023 4:23 am  by  WALTER784

From: Nucc 


W> On another note, neither of your maps depict Israel (or the old Palestine area) in its entirety. See the picture below for details.  Secondly, Babylon was east of Kirkuk, Iraq. That's nowhere near where Israel is.

N> OK  but If Ur is where Israel is then why would God tell Abram to leave Ur? ( South Mesopotamia) which is Iraq today?

Printable Map Of Abraham's Journey - Printable Word Searches

I realize you're trying to make a point but in message #2, I was making the point of God's sovereign plan in creating the nation of Israel and the journey to fulfill the creation of Israel.