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From: Warder (5050DAVID)8/26/03 2:06 PM 
To: All  (1 of 11) 
 8605.1 
After almost 5 years of marraige, my wife and I are getting divorced. Not what either of us wanted it to come to, but here it is, big as life. I don't really know what kind of help I'm asking for...those who have been through this know the cauldron of emotions that arise. We're not arguing, or nasty to each other. Just in seperate rooms. This is real difficult, after being gone from the realm for so long, to ask for anything! I hope and pray that there can be some kind of resolve between us, that could allow us to stay roommates. Some days it's fine. others I just can't get out of the funk. It's my fault, I figure... I just can't give her what she needs...me. I don't know how!!! Well, I guess she doesn't need me as much as she once did. Is there anyone,ANYONE that can suggest ANYTHING that can possibly help me turn this around? At 43, I've been the eternal optimist, but this has broken me. Any input is gladly accepted. Getting hard to type. Thank You, All!

Dare to Dream
Bright Blessings
David

 
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From: Tarty (RAVENGIL) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by host8/26/03 10:49 PM 
To: Warder (5050DAVID)  (2 of 11) 
 8605.2 in reply to 8605.1 
First let me say, Welcome back

Then, I am so sorry this is happening to you and your relationship right now.

Without too much to go on, have you tried couple's counseling?


Hostess of
Astarte's Pagan Realm


Hostess of



Hostess of


 

 
From: Warder (5050DAVID)8/28/03 2:31 PM 
To: Tarty (RAVENGIL) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (3 of 11) 
 8605.3 in reply to 8605.2 
Yes, we've tried some counseling, Things go alright for a while, until I make a stupid mistake , or fail to notice something, we've had weeks pass with no real communication. I've alwawys had difficulties with communication, but she has helped me with this in many ways. She said that she's "just given up" on trying to make us work. Mostly because she did'nt see "any efforts from me".

Talking...I can talk all day long with someone on a wide range of subjects. But to sit down with my wife, I suddenly go blank. Like I'm afraid of saying or doing something stupid. When we had difficulties, we could talk all day long. Now, when my body gets tired, it shuts down...I fall asleep. not unlike narcolepsy. I've had this happen during discussions about our relationship, which she took for dis-intrest, even though she knows my propensity for this. I know this Sounds disjointed, but it's hard enough trying to recall events in order, be unbiased, and bare myself publicly. I take a lions share of the responsiblity about what has come to pass, I Love this woman with all that I can give...it just doesn't seem to be enough. Gotta go, Hard to see the screen...Thanks, Astarte. Maybe I just need a place to scream, cry, jump up and down and stamp my feet and act like a child just to get it out of my system. Many days i just want to rage at my own stupidity. Pretty messed up, huh?

 

 
From: Saffire (SAFFIREM)8/28/03 3:21 PM 
To: Warder (5050DAVID)  (4 of 11) 
 8605.4 in reply to 8605.3 
~*(~*(~*(~*(~David~)*~)*~)*~)*~

First of all... when a relationship crumbles it is ever very rarely only person's fault. First of all, don't think of it as fault. You are beating yourself up... stop. Be nice to you cuz through it all, regardless of what happens, you're going to need yourself and if you beat yourself up, you'll only open yourself to allowing others to do so as well... so, stop.

Next... take a deep breath. IMNSHO, it takes two to make it and it takes two to break it. You keep saying you did something wrong or you're afraid of doing something wrong. It doesn't sound very healthy to live with such a fear. A spouse is supposedly your best friend and as we know, best friends know us (completely) YET love us anyway. Something has gone on in your relationship that this isn't so anymore. Was it that way at one time? What has changed since then? If you can't recall anything, don't worry about it. You are gonig through a malstrom of emotions and feelings right now. You're lucky to get out of bed... right?

If you really want to analyze the hell out of things, do so. But do so without beating yourself up. What has changed within yourself.. within your spouse? Nothing? Everything? No guilt here.. just facts if they exist. You say she's given up on making it work... I remember feeling that way with my ex but in my case I was doing all the work, yet it wasn't all my fault, nor was it all his. It was ours.. our marriage that failed.. we simply found that we are much better parents to our son and friends to each other than we are spouses. I beat myself up a while over the breakup BUT I learned from it and moved on.

Have you pulled away lately? Has she? Are you both walking around on eggshells?

Whatever happens, consider getting personal counseling for yourself. Whether you stay together or go through with a divorce you are going to go through a helluva transition. Counseling can offer you an unbiased person, with whom you can vent, cry and help you through this transition. You're human.. divorce is hard, even the easy ones. A counseler can also help you see what you can't see cuz right now, you're in the middle of it.. a counseler will see things from outside of it... sounds rediculous, I know.. how can someone else see something that should be obvious to me... trust me it happens... if you don't have a counselor have a very close trusting friend who can be unbiased.

Take care and take it all one day at a time. Go easy on yourself.. start a journal if you haven't already. Unload... pretty messed up? Nope.. normal. BTW, I also suggest you DO go out, stomp your feet, scream at a rock (they usually don't mind), hug a tree, GET IT OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM... cry, laugh, scream, whatever... write if it helps, draw if that helps too... or paint, or sculpt (mud works), vent...

 

 
From: Chakrachick8/28/03 5:48 PM 
To: Warder (5050DAVID)  (5 of 11) 
 8605.5 in reply to 8605.1 
Man, David, I am sorry- this sounds so hard. I don't really have any advice for you, though. Maybe find some common ground to be friends and become comfortable with eachother?

If you're walking on thin ice, you may as well dance.

Check us out at Divinity Sisters
 

 
From: Dena (UNICORN8)8/29/03 9:54 AM 
To: Warder (5050DAVID)  (6 of 11) 
 8605.6 in reply to 8605.1 
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ DAVID }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I am sorry to hear about this, but honey, it takes TWO to make a marriage work, if only one of you is trying, then I am sorry to say its doomed to fail, its NOT all YOUR fault

Love dena

Host of
Full Circle Dea

 

 
From: Pariah278/29/03 2:24 PM 
To: Warder (5050DAVID)  (7 of 11) 
 8605.7 in reply to 8605.1 
Sorry to hear about your troubles right now. Just wanted to ask a couple of questions after reading your posts. You don't have to answer them publicly, maybe just think about it and see what you come up with. :)

One of the first things you say is that you want to stay roommates - why? Sounds painful to me, or obsessive.

You claim the "lion's share of the blame" - why do you feel so guilty? Something you did, or just the way you handle things? Is this related to your thought about how you can't "give her" yourself? What, exactly, does that mean? In 5 years of marriage, have you not given of yourself to her? If not, why? If so, why do you say you don't know how?

You say she doesn't need you as much as she once did. I say that's a good thing. Need isn't a good thing to base a relationship on. Did she ever NEED you? Has she changed and grown from a needy person to a self-fulfilled person and you're feeling left out? Do you need to be needed? Is there something else you can base a new foundation on, like friendship or love rather than need?

You said you've tried "some" couples counselling. Doesn't sound like a huge effort to save a relationship. Try some more! And I agree with the other response that you should try some personal counselling. And keep at it. Don't just go for a while and think it's all okay, then fall back into old, established patterns. Go until you're really okay and this is all over and you're back on your emotional feet.

You say that she's given up because she didn't see any effort from you. Were you making an effort she didn't credit you with, or was there a lack of effort on your part until it was too late and now you're interested in saving the relationship? What effort are you making right now? Is it helping?

About talking: You say you can talk all day to your friends (are you neglecting her to do so?) but you freeze up with her. She might be wanting more than the "talking to a friend" kind of communication. Couples "talk" differently with each other than with most friends. What do you talk about with your friends? Why can't you talk to her? Fear - of what? Talking about the weather or your favorite hobby probably isn't what she's looking for. (well, there should be that kind of talk, too, but I hope you got the point.) If you WERE talking right now, what would you want to say to her? Think about it beforehand, make notes, practice it like a speach so you won't stumble on it so badly (but be prepared to be flexable when you're talking to her) - and then go talk to her. Tell her how you feel. Ask her how she feels. If she's "given up" then maybe she feels like SHE tried, too, and it didn't work. Where were you when she was making that effort? Are you only sad now that she's called a halt? What would happen if you both tried to work on it at the same time instead of one at a time and giving up? You say that "suddenly" you can't talk to her - was there a time when your communication was good? What is different now?

Lastly...you're doing a lot of guilt. Is that justified? Was there something you did to precipitate all this and now you don't like the consequences? Most people don't throw away 5 years lightly. What kept you together that long? Where did it go? Was there something that SHE did which made it all go sour? Is your entire relationship revolving around one event right now? Can you stop it from being that way? Guilt, fear, sorrow, anger...all normal aspects of losing a relationship you've invested 5 years into. But try to make sure that they are actual and not mere knee-jerk reactions of pain.

Most of all - there is a process to grieving. Allow yourself the time, energy, patience, and self-love to complete the process. You usually can't just skip steps if you want to come out the other side with some kind of understanding and emotional health. It takes time. Wanting to stay roommates with someone you can't communicate with SOUNDS LIKE the "bargaining" aspect (within yourself). Are there children involved that make you want to remain that close? Is it a financial decision (intertwined lives for 5 years probably means tangled monies)? Are you trying to be there to pick back up where you left off? Is it a way to asuage your guilt? It's hard to be objective whilst in the middle of turmoil. Meditate. I agree - write things down, talk to someone professionally, do whatever it takes to get things out of your system so you can figure out "where to go from here."

And just so you don't think I'm being insensative or harsh, my 8 year marriage ended last year, too. I was cheating on him (our sex life stank but the rest was pretty awesome) and he just couldn't forget. His heart forgave me, but his mind did terrible things to him about it all. We tried to "save" the relationship for almost 2 years before we finally let it go and moved on. Those were the worst 2 years of the whole thing, ironicly.

GOOD LUCK!

Most things happen for a reason...let that reason find you.


Edited 8/29/2003 3:59:27 PM ET by PARIAH27
 

 
From: Warder (5050DAVID)9/4/03 5:50 PM 
To: Warder (5050DAVID)  (8 of 11) 
 8605.8 in reply to 8605.1 
I want to take a moment and thank everyone that responded to my plea.
There's quite a few good words there and I am grateful for your input. My wife saw some of the posts, and I got some good words from her as well. We're not fixed, but it's a starting point. The divorce is still on, but we're gonna start our friendship over...well, If that can be done, maybe we can work some other things out and who knows what the years hold? My hold on things was rather weak and getting the posts was something I looked forward to every day. by all means, don't stop the suggestions! I need all the help i can get! :) Such a balance of opinions, but that can be expected of a group like you. And Thank You again, Tarty...Just for being here and keeping this forum open.

Bright Bessings to All
Dare To Dream

David

 

 
From: MILPOL9/5/03 11:45 AM 
To: Warder (5050DAVID)  (9 of 11) 
 8605.9 in reply to 8605.8 
I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. Tho I wasn't married at the time. I was engaged and we had been together for 7 or so years. I had made a promise to myself earlier on that I wouldn't give up on that relationship. That I would try everything and fight for it toothe and nail. Well, long story short. It didn't work. I took 90% of the blame and was completely wrecked as a result of it. I even tried making the relationship work after we broke apart. Getting back together another 3 times. Each time I ended up being hurt and bitter. Each time I went back to her I ended up hurting others around me, some I was in a relationship with at the time. I guess what I'm trying to say is...you aren't alone and always remember that it takes two to make a relationship work. Sometimes people just change and that change can make a relationship near if not completely impossible to work. Just don't lose yourself and know that it's not all or even the "lion's share" your fault. *hugs* Tough times...but it'll get better. Somehow it always does. *G*
Spirit Online: Spiritual Community & Information Network

 

 
From: Tarty (RAVENGIL) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by host9/9/03 4:46 PM 
To: Warder (5050DAVID)  (10 of 11) 
 8605.10 in reply to 8605.3 
((((((((((David)))))))))))))

You received some wonderful posts here and I hope it helps. I will reiterate one point though-- You should not carry all of the blame!

It sounds like you really want this to work out and I hope that you both do

Tarty

p.s.-- thank you for the wonderful e-mail. Did you get my reply?


Hostess of
Astarte's Pagan Realm


Founder of



Hostess of




Edited 9/9/2003 4:54:54 PM ET by Tarty (RAVENGIL)
 

 
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