The world in a Sand Grain

Hosted by Sand_Grain

Current debate about contemporary life, ancient historical issues, and just about everything in between in different languages

  • 759
  • 29869
  • 7


Vietnam War Documentary    History and Archaeology

Started 13/11/19 by Sand_Grain; 3072 views.

From: TAB00GA


All I got was a Tee-Shirt with ....


Gonghis (GonghisKhan)

From: Gonghis (GonghisKhan)


You are among the lucky ones with a t-shirt others were 'done' six-feet under!


From: funiki




First Kill was directed by Coco Schrijber and produced by Lemming Film.

Vietnam War Documentary - 'First Kill' by Michael Herr

 Docs Fil 5 Oct 2013



From: funiki


ONE WAR AT THE TIME confounded

Please don't confuse people that care for humanity with the other people that don't care about it and all the war corruptions.


From: funiki


TAB00GA said:


Good morning Vietnam soundtrack on youtube is outstanding!

In addition to your T-Shirt! relaxed

In reply toRe: msg 1

From: Berylline



Yet again like clockwork this forum site has another troll!

There is no question that the Vietnam War scarred the American psyche deeply, nor that it continues to influence American foreign policy and military strategy profoundly.


From: BerrySteph


Pinck0 said:

I am not sure about these figures but it looks possibly close....

What, the 285,000 killed in Iraq in the first year, or the 8 to 10 milllion killed in Vietnam from 1945 to 1975?


From: BerrySteph


Berylline said:

There is no question that the Vietnam War scarred the American psyche deeply

I hear that.

But I also see this:

... "In the South, 9,000 out of 15,000 hamlets, 25 million acres of farmland, 12 million acres of forest were destroyed, and 1.5 million farm animals had been killed; there were an estimated 200,000 prostitutes, 879,000 orphans, 181,000 disabled people, and 1 million widows; all six of the industrial cities in the North had been badly damaged, as were provincial and district towns, and 4,000 out of 5,800 agricultural communes."

Refusing, however, to pay any reparations, President Carter explained that "the destruction was mutual."

President Clinton's Defense Secretary, William Cohen, declared that he saw no need for "any apologies, certainly, for the war itself ... Both nations were scarred by this. They have their scars from the war. We certainly have ours."[7. Mar. 11, 2000 and Marilyn Young, The Vietnam Wars (New York: 1991) p.301-2. Cited in Finkelstein "Holocaust Industry"]

I'm sure you put up a memorial with the total number of deaths on it.


From: Sand_Grain


I have an idea BerrySteph,  relaxed

Please why don't you start a topic about IRAQ and all of the Bush/Cheney wars, no one I know were fans of these wars, and I'll make a promo of it.

OKAY? - Now this is a documentary about Vietnam, because in the future we will write a colab poem about VIETNAM... a homage to my friends...  I have several Vietnamese friends that moved to Canada when they were babies and young children as the wars broke up there...  

Thanks for posting!  smiley 


From: BerrySteph


Sand_Grain said:

Please why don't you start a topic about IRAQ and all of the Bush/Cheney wars, no one I know were fans of these wars, and I'll make a promo of it.

What for?

You say that "nobody is a fan" of the totally wrongful war in Iraq - but nobody cares what we did there.

For instance:

... The Lancet study estimating 100,000 probable deaths by October 2004 elicited enough comment in England that the government had to issue an embarrassing denial, but in the United States virtual silence prevailed.

The occasional oblique reference usually describes it as the "controversial" report that "as many as 100,000" Iraqis died as a result of the invasion. The figure of 100,000 was the most probable estimate, on conservative assumptions; it would be at least as accurate to describe it as the report that "as few as 100,000" died.

Though the report was released at the height of the U.S. presidential campaign, it appears that neither of the leading candidates was ever publicly questioned about it. - DEAD - " Returning to the Scene of the Crime - War Crimes in Iraq" - by Noam Chomsky - April 04, 2006 - now at

At least 100,000 deaths? Only because the research was obstructed and carried out on a shoe-string:

... Roberts wrote, in a letter to the Independent, "Please understand how extremely conservative we were: we did a survey estimating that 285,000 people have died due to the first 18 months of invasion and occupation and we reported it as at least 100,000."

The dilemma he faced was this: in the 33 clusters surveyed, 18 reported no violent deaths (including one in Sadr City), 14 other clusters reported a total of 21 violent deaths and the Fallujah cluster reported 52 violent deaths. This last number is conservative because, as the report stated, "23 households of 52 visited were either temporarily or permanently abandoned. Neighbors interviewed described widespread death in most of the abandoned homes but could not give adequate details for inclusion in the survey."

Leaving aside this last factor, there were three possible interpretations of the results from Fallujah. The first, and indeed the one Roberts adopted, was that the team had randomly stumbled on a cluster of homes where the death toll was so high as to be totally unrepresentative and therefore not relevant to the survey. The second possibility was that this pattern among the 33 clusters, with most of the casualties falling in one cluster and many clusters reporting zero deaths, was an accurate representation of the distribution of civilian casualties in Iraq under "precision" aerial bombardment. The third possibility was that the Fallujah cluster was atypical, but not sufficiently abnormal to warrant total exclusion from the study, so that the number of excess deaths was somewhere between 100,000 and 285,000.

Without further research, there is no way to determine which of these three possibilities is correct. Ibid.

Oh, but that's OK isn't it - that was in 2004, the count would be repeated every year for at least 10 years, wouldn't it?

Well, no. Like the casualties in Vietnam, we don't want to know what harm we do - and Roberts was personally attacked for daring to try and expose some of it.

Feb 2006 ... Over a year ago an international team of epidemiologists, headed by Les Roberts of Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, completed a "cluster sample survey" of civilian casualties in Iraq ... Soon after the study was published, US and British officials launched a concerted campaign to discredit its authors and marginalize their findings without seriously addressing the validity of their methods or presenting any evidence to challenge their conclusions. 

... Roberts has been puzzled and disturbed by this response to his work, which stands in sharp contrast to the way the same governments responded to a similar study he led in the Democratic Republic of Congo in 2000. In that case, he reported that about 1.7 million people had died during 22 months of war and, as he says, "Tony Blair and Colin Powell quoted those results time and time again without any question as to the precision or validity." - "Burying The Lancet Report" - now at

What in effect we saw and are seeing over Iraq is a total breakdown of our sense of legality, with witnesses, including career professionals like Les Roberts, viciously attacked for attempting to do an honest and very important job.