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Why Are We in Ukraine?   Discussions

Started 27/10/22 by Apollonius (Theocritos); 8371 views.

From: Guard101


Historical facts....thanks, something to learn from. clap 


From: maxi4


Why don't you tell us all why Biden is like Hitler. Thanks!

In reply toRe: msg 1

... In 2014, during the consulship of the divine Obama, Vladimir Putin took the measure of his adversary and decided the time was ripe for a little military adventurism. He invaded and took possession of Crimea. Did he hold his breath? I do not know. Maybe. Obama stamped, or tapped, his feet; the “international community” tut-tutted. No one did anything. So Vlad relaxed and got on with his hobbies of hobbling journalists and riding stallions.

Then came Donald Trump’s first term. All beautiful people hated him. He was so infra dig. Those ties. That diction. The fast food. The fondness for proles. The unenlightened attitudes about the gods of Gaia, Gender and ESG. Appalling. But — or perhaps I should say “and” — he started no wars. And people like Putin, the diminutive Michelin Man in North Korea, the mullahs in Iran, and even Pooh-Bear in China sized up the Bad Orange Man and decided to tone down the belligerence and bide their time. Putin, for example, made no move in Ukraine during Trump’s first administration. Coincidence?

In reply toRe: msg 68

Russia is losing the war in Ukraine. So is Ukraine. And so are we.

Imagine the good guys win tomorrow. What exactly will we have won? Ukraine was the poorest country in Europe even before the war. Afterward it will remain as dependent on American dollars as it is now — and on American arms. Russia will not have disappeared, after all.

The last war-torn and impoverished country that required open-ended American support was Afghanistan. Yet all the weapons and funds we lavished on Hamid Karzai and Ashraf Ghani failed to keep the Taliban at bay after we left. The money also didn’t help with Afghanistan’s corruption problem. Will it help with Ukraine’s? In 2021, Transparency International ranked Ukraine second only to Russia as the most corrupt country in Europe.

Volodymyr Zelensky, the Western media’s hero of liberal democracy, has banned political opposition. That may be understandable, if still lamentable, in wartime. But who will hold his government accountable after the war? The aim of any war is a superior postwar order. If the White House or global democracy gurus such as Anne Applebaum and Francis Fukuyama can’t offer a credible postwar scenario, we should assume this war will end like most of our others since the dying days of the Cold War.

Even the best of our wars since the End of History began have left us worse off. America backed freedom fighters defending their country against the Russians in the 1980s, but the Soviet Union’s loss in Afghanistan ultimately cleared the way for the Taliban’s victory. And Taliban-controlled Afghanistan hurt us on September 11, 2001, in a way the Soviet Union and its satellites had never dared.

The 1991 Persian Gulf War seemed like a total triumph at the time. Yet the war continued long after Saddam Hussein’s invasion of Kuwait had been repelled in the form of no-fly zones enforced by American airpower. Our military presence in Saudi Arabia enabled Osama bin Laden to recruit enraged Islamists into al-Qaeda to wage campaigns of terror against us. America’s failed occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq were consequences of our earlier war to defend Kuwait.


The rationale for America’s support for Ukraine, after all, is that Ukraine is the first domino, and if it falls, the next might be a NATO member. America has the alliance to help us fight wars — the official line is that our allies are vital to our own security — but we have to fight wars to protect the alliance. And as our allies increase, the perimeter we must defend increases, too. Ask not where this stops but whether it ever does.

America is called upon to be the world’s policeman at a time when American policemen aren’t allowed to keep order in our own cities. Our parties believe democracy and constitutional government are fraying at home, yet also believe we can mobilize our people and their taxes to bring order to Ukraine, Russia and the South China Sea. Our republic was designed to serve the American people. Our leaders want the American people to serve the world. Americans themselves have only a limited willingness to do so, and when leaders like George W. Bush surpassed that willingness, the result was the election of a mildly antiwar Democrat, Barack Obama, and then a wildly anti-establishment Republican, Donald Trump.

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In reply toRe: msg 67

From: Bab6s



Why didn't you read the editorial from an expert, to know ---  some MORE? blush

In reply toRe: msg 69

From: Bab6s


"There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter. "

--  Ernest Hemingway ok_hand

In reply toRe: msg 70

From: maxi4


An expert? Where? It's all propaganda, toots.

In reply toRe: msg 73

From: Bab6s


Medical propaganda on TV - something that is banned in some countries in Europe, because it definitely creates hypochondriacs!