HWPeeler (HPeeler)

Reading Through the Bible

Hosted by HWPeeler (HPeeler)

A different look at the bible.

  • 41
    MEMBERS
  • 37
    MESSAGES
  • 0
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

What do you think of animal sacrifices?

Started Jul-6 by HWPeeler (HPeeler); 71 views.
HWPeeler (HPeeler)

From: HWPeeler (HPeeler)

Jul-6

Does it make sense to you that an animal sacrifice will please god and bring fair weather or crops or compensate for your sins? Very pagan! Of course all it did was feed the priests. Some critters are thrown on the fire. Others kept for the BBQ. You mainly sacrificed food animals, grains and such, right?

And a human sacrifice is really hard core pagan, right?

So how does this Christian notion of Jesus "dying for our sins" make any sense? Christianity is ill considered paganism at its foundation.

God doesn't need the burning meat. God doesn't need your crops. God doesn't need … anything from you. The priests need to eat. The church needs money to build temples and do good social works. They need to dress like kings, right?

The bible (Old Testament) is filled with examples of sacrifices. Bring a bull to your church today and they won't know what to do with it. Now it is money that counts. The human sacrifice has already been made. Why do you believe that?

Obezlix

From: Obezlix

Jul-10

No I dont think it is a good think to adopt middle ages rituals, whatsoever!!! 

grinning 

  • Edited July 10, 2018 11:29 pm  by  Obezlix
HWPeeler (HPeeler)

From: HWPeeler (HPeeler)

Jul-10

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your opinion. If we realize a sacrifice is an ancient pagan ritual what can we say that supports the Christ story? I don't know off hand when Jews stopped it and went with tithing money instead. Reports differ. Some say about 70 CE and other about 135 CE.

Obezlix

From: Obezlix

Jul-10

The whole god thing and its ritual is absolutely ridiculous , fitting for ignorant tribal herd!!

GonghisKhan

From: GonghisKhan

Jul-11

Pretty much the same for me

RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Jul-12

Of course, if there is a God he does not need or require sacrifices.

However you are a bit confused regarding sacrifices, they are not burned meat, they are cooked meat, which is in many cases consumed by the believer for many reason.

the Word "sacrifice" means to be made holy, so in many belief systems the sacrificed animal, grain, fruit, etc. simply acquires some magical property of benefit to the consumer beyond

of the simple nutrition.

My village is 10% Muslim, 90% Catholic (cultural, not particularly religious). Both cultures have animal sacrifices as a tradition- for the majority, it is just a cultural norm.

Muslims sacrificing sheep is a symbolic act commemorating the non sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham. It does not matter if the myth is true or not, it is a community binding

act, no different then some Americans, chopping down Christmas tres, or asluting the flag.

In many countries on St Anthony´s day, there is the blessing of the animals, same function, just a community building tradition, I doubt if any believe there is any particular

benefit from the ritual act. Here we are more pagan, we not only bless animals on that day, but cook and eat them. In our case there is a specific blessing of an ox, which we

kill and cook over an open fire all day, and eat that night at a public BBQ, no theological benefit, but a community act similar to Americans doing hot dogs on the 4th of july.

Not necessarily just a pagan thing or even a pagan practice, because many pagan cultues do not have a sacrificial act, but still have special meals on special days. Belief in the

magic is pagan, but this does not make the act specificly pagan in function.

The entire "sacrifice" of Jesús for our sins, is bogus theology, copied from pagan practice as the early Christians expanded from palestine.

Many people get confused with the concept of sacrifice as an act of killing and burning, but miss the most important part, which is eating the result.

The "communion" of communion is the shared meal..

HWPeeler (HPeeler)

From: HWPeeler (HPeeler)

Jul-12

I think your concept of sacrifice as a BBQ is modern. Ancient (2,000 years ago) might be different. It was "throw the beast on the fire and the smell and smoke pleased god". Bull, of course, the real objective was to feed the priests.

RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Jul-12

"Throwing the beast on the fire" is simply the Hollywood interpretation. Here on Mallorca we have thousands of years of civilization. In fact within 5k of my typing this is the remains of a prehistoric settlement where the stones are bigger the VWs. What is now a village church of a place called "Son Mesquita" (the Mosque family estate) was a Stone age temple, Phoenician temple, Roman Temple, Byzantine Catholic church, Muslim mosque, RC priory - now just used for occasionle masses. Archaeological evidence suggests that until RC times, the sacrificial object was ultimately nutrition for the community. Of course there was a tie between religious practitioners and the established, resulting in who got the best cut. In initial Christian times, the meat was shared by the community, not just for the church establishment. It was only in the early middle ages, that the share that went to support the clergy got out of hand.

Aside, those who support bull fighting are very quick to point out the charitable aspects of this practice - the dead bull still ends up as protein for both religious and civic charitable organizations.

The problema today, with most religions, is the justification for their existence, has Little to do with community or charity, but to maintain their establishment. Which to me is why the current breaks churches and donars get, should be considered unconstitutional under separation of church and state. Could be justified, if churches were considered businesses like the Red cross and audited to determine what part of income actually goes to charity. As far as I know, only the Quakers, volunteer to pay their untaxed share of property tax. And the quakers I know, do not claim tax deductions for theri donations. This for two reasons: 1. if a quaker meeting house paid no property tax, its neighbors are forced to make up the difference. 2. For a church to be qualified for such benefits, it has to be recognized by some element of the state giving it the right to make rules concerning that church - e.g. all churches receiving any sort of government benefit, are an example of established religión. Even Scientology, is a recognized church.

HWPeeler (HPeeler)

From: HWPeeler (HPeeler)

Jul-12

"Christian" times in Spain is not very ancient. "Throw the beast on the fire" may very well be as you say, Hollywood.

RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Jul-12

Your point depends on definition. the present state of Spain had a Jewish population before the birth of Christ, and a Christian population within living memory of Christ´s times. For example, after the Crucifixión, Pontius Pilot ended up as Roman authority in Tarragona, where the Christian population also had roots (when the architects, cleared the cite of his arena, they found a Christian church in the center. The present state of Spain is only about 150 years old. So next to Phoenician, Greek, and Roman, "Christian times" are older in Spain then in most countries of Europe today. The Christian church as a marketing technique, often ignored pagan elements, simply baptizing them as Christian. For example in our church abut 1700, on the second (of21) alter on the North side, is the same prechristian symbol as found on the American one daller bill. The eye is no different from the Egyptian hieroglyphic of which it is a model. It is interpreted as the eye of God, who in Genesis separates llight for darkness, srrounding it is a triangle representing the Holy Trinity. While it was fairly common throughout Europe before the Reformation, it is quite common today throughout the Spanish State, but is also found on icons of Orthodox Christianity. I have never seen a western Christian church with an image of God, outside of spain, but God is quite common here, sometimes just an eye, other an old man bearded in a White robe, sometimes dressed like the pope. Often instead of the traditional circular halo as seen on Jesús and the saints, God´s halo is a triangle.

Another aspect of Christianity is its evolution in Spain. When the Roman empire divided, the architecture shifted from Romanesque to Byzantine, since Spain was not under Rome but as a part of North Africa, came under Constantinople. That was the nature of Christianity when Islam arrived, and how it survived by accomodation with Islam as it did through the Turkish period. Islam in the north of Spain dealt with the Arian heriics, who arrived with the Goths and Vandals, who later united with Rom for self defense, so when my island was conquered from Islam, its Christian population was more like the present Greek Orthodox then the Latin Rite. It was when the Catalans arrived, that my Island Christians joined the Roman rite. and the architecture became Romanesque then Gothic, but archaeologists are  still uncovering what are called "paleochristian" ruins, suggesting the Eastern Rite churches. But it is hard to stamp out paganism, especially in rural agricultural áreas, so many of our current folk rituals are pan European prechristian (castellers, morris dances, hobby horses, stick dances, maypole dances, animal slaughtering practices, and in Spanish speaking Spain, bull fighting.

TOP