Train Incidents -  NTSB to investigate three-train crash (62 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
 
From: Chocolate Pig (TOILETHEA1) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-14 7:32 AM 
To: All  (2 of 12) 
 72.2 in reply to 72.1 

UPDATE;

CP train operating without functioning PTC at center of three-train collision in Minnesota

By | October 13, 2021

 

Preliminary report from NTSB describes events of Aug. 25 accident in St. Paul

A Canadian Pacific train operating without functioning positive train control triggered August’s three-railroad, three-train collision in St. Paul, Minn., according to a preliminary report from the National Transportation Safety Board.

The preliminary report, released Wednesday, lays out basic facts of the accident but does not draw any conclusions or recommend any actions.

The Aug. 25, 2021, accident saw the eastbound CP train collide with a stopped Union Pacific train on the same track, derailing one locomotive from the CP train and two from the UP train; the derailed CP locomotive then struck a lumber car from a BNSF Railway train on an adjacent track [see “NTSB to investigate three-train collision …,” Trains News Wire, Aug. 27, 2021].

The report says CP train 296-23, which originated in Calgary and had four locomotives and 117 cars — 28 loads and 89 empties — had a failure of its onboard PTC system on Aug. 23. CP’s PTC help desk was unable to troubleshoot the problem and instructed the crew to proceed, per regular procedures. Upon arriving in St. Paul, the crew informed the BNSF dispatcher that the train was operating without PTC; the BNSF chief dispatcher authorized the train to proceed.

After stopping for a red signal at the Seventh Street control point, the CP train proceeded after receiving a diverging approach indication toward the next control point, Division Street, where the accident occurred.

No injuries were reported; initial damage was estimated at $674,000. The NTSB report indicates the ongoing investigation “will focus on train crew performance.”

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/cp-train-operating-without-functioning-ptc-at-center-of-three-train-collision-in-minnesota/

 

 
From: WALTER784 DelphiPlus Member IconOct-15 10:23 AM 
To: Chocolate Pig (TOILETHEA1) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (3 of 12) 
 72.3 in reply to 72.2 

Cold Butt Shorty (TOILETHEA1) said...

The preliminary report, released Wednesday, lays out basic facts of the accident but does not draw any conclusions or recommend any actions.

That's crazy... 

Even I... just a train enthusiast have a recommended action...

If the cause of the crash was a non-functioning PTC at center of three-train collision, then ensure there are duplicate systems and a warning alarm when one of them fails!

I mean... one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to recommend at least those basic changes!

FWIW

 

 
From: Chocolate Pig (TOILETHEA1) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-15 11:21 AM 
To: WALTER784 DelphiPlus Member Icon  (4 of 12) 
 72.4 in reply to 72.3 

I agree!  I was shocked the train was allowed to continue as it was!  IMO some people need retraining or discipline.

 

 
From: WALTER784 DelphiPlus Member IconOct-15 11:47 AM 
To: Chocolate Pig (TOILETHEA1) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (5 of 12) 
 72.5 in reply to 72.4 

Cold Butt Shorty (TOILETHEA1) said...

I was shocked the train was allowed to continue as it was!  IMO some people need retraining or discipline.

Slight correction...

First of all heads need to roll... then the retraining and discipline!

It will make the training and discipline that much more effective! (* SMIRK *)

FWIW

 

 
From: Chocolate Pig (TOILETHEA1) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-15 12:20 PM 
To: WALTER784 DelphiPlus Member Icon  (6 of 12) 
 72.6 in reply to 72.5 

Good point! Who is dispatch told them to keep rolling?  That is my main question. 

 

 
From: WALTER784 DelphiPlus Member IconOct-16 5:12 AM 
To: Chocolate Pig (TOILETHEA1) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (7 of 12) 
 72.7 in reply to 72.6 

The report said:

>>>Upon arriving in St. Paul, the crew informed the BNSF dispatcher that the train was operating without PTC; the BNSF chief dispatcher authorized the train to proceed.<<<

So the BNSF chief dispatcher MUST be fired! it was his call knowing good and well the PTC was not functioning properly!

For those who don't know what a PTC is... Positive Train Control (PTC) | FRA (dot.gov)

FWIW

 

 
From: Chocolate Pig (TOILETHEA1) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-16 5:17 AM 
To: WALTER784 DelphiPlus Member Icon  (8 of 12) 
 72.8 in reply to 72.7 

True, I forgot that point.  He should be firied if he hadn't been already.

 

 
From: WALTER784 DelphiPlus Member IconOct-16 5:26 AM 
To: Chocolate Pig (TOILETHEA1) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (9 of 12) 
 72.9 in reply to 72.8 

What time zone are you in posting your reply to me at this hour?

I'm in Japan and it's almost 6:30PM Japan time. That would make it 5:30 AM EST!

FWIW

 

 
From: Chocolate Pig (TOILETHEA1) DelphiPlus Member Icon Posted by hostOct-16 7:40 AM 
To: WALTER784 DelphiPlus Member Icon  (10 of 12) 
 72.10 in reply to 72.9 

In Arizona, we don't change time zones, right now though I'm in Pacific Time but soon I'm going to be in the Mountain Time zone;  ugh it's all crazy, other states around me change.  Ever since I retired, I enjoy being up extra early.

 

 
From: WALTER784 DelphiPlus Member IconOct-16 8:59 AM 
To: Chocolate Pig (TOILETHEA1) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (11 of 12) 
 72.11 in reply to 72.10 

AZ... let's see now... that's Australia ain't it? (* ROFLMAO *)

I didn't know Arizona didn't follow summer time. And I fully understand your qualms with those who do.

My father and brother are in Florida so it's either 13 or 14 hours different depending on summer time or not.

But once you're retired... which I too am glad to be... the only two things that matter in life are waking up and going to sleep... as for what time for either... who cares? (* ROFLMAO *)

But the last 8.5 years before I retired, I had to have telecons with people from all around the world...

France, Austria, Croatia, Romania, India, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Chicago, and I'm sure I'm missing a few countries... and as each of them not only have or don't have summer time... they all change their summer times on different dates to boot... so it was difficult to keep track of all of them so that Japan... which doesn't have summer time can make the telecons at the right times.

FWIW

 

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