Coalition of the Confused

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Commonwealth refugees swilling chardonnay while awaiting the Zombie Apocalypse.

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Crimes of War   Africa and the Middle East

Started Oct-16 by Jenifer (Zarknorph); 6877 views.
adwil

From: adwil

Oct-21

"1) Show us any "bona fide historians" defending Kurt Becher. You don't really have any understanding of what historians actually do. Why should any modern historian accuse or defend anyone. Their job is to present the facts as best they can so the reader is in a position to make a judgement. 

2) Show us any hasbarists who defend Kurt Becher. " Why on earth should I believe what I read from a polemicist?

3) Admit there is absolutely nobody (else) in the world who has ever made this defense."

What a silly thing to say. How would I know? There's very little on the subject of Kurt Becher, probably because he was never 'central or 'important. He's just a minor player in the Eichmann led Hungarian Holocaust best known for co-operating with the Jewish Aid  and Rescue group, the Vaada and helping Kastner save Jewish lives at great personal risk.

You're still suffering from 'Becher on the brain'.  Your basic problem is that Becher was not found guilty of any war crime after WW2. He was accused 20 or 30 years later in West Germany on two occasions, (with others) but each time the case collapsed because of lack of evidence.

4) Tell us what's in the book that he recommended "Self-financing Genocide: The Gold Train, the Becher Case and the Wealth of Hungarian Jews" 2004 

5) Or in "The Gold Train: The Destruction of the Jews and the Looting of Hungary" 

I've read both books. You haven't. You just search for evidence that supports your prejudices. I suggest you refresh your memory of the 'Gold Train' by reading the summary in  "Rosner, et al. v. United States of America, Docket No. 01-1859-CIV-SEITZ."

To help you, here is the relevant bit. "The Hungarian Gold Train was a train of approximately 24 freight cars that contained personal property which was taken, seized, confiscated or stolen by the Hungarian government from Hungarian Jews. 

http://www.hungariangoldtrain.org/index_en.php

OK? Got that? Becher isn't mentioned because he had nothing at all to do with the Gold Train which was organised by the Hungarian Government. You believe he had, because there is another separate section in the book looking at the Weiss-Mann takeover, that Becher actually did organise.  If you'd read the book, you'd know they were unconnected events. That's how I know you haven't read the book.

OK. Next question.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Oct-21

adwil said:

"1) Show us any "bona fide historians" defending Kurt Becher. You don't really have any understanding of what historians actually do. Why should any modern historian accuse or defend anyone. 

Everything you've included is deliberately deceptive - or maybe outright false.

Kurt Becher (when he's mentioned, though as a protected friend of Israel, he doesn't get much mention) is condemned by "bona-fide historians".

adwil said:  2) Show us any hasbarists who defend Kurt Becher. " Why on earth should I believe what I read from a polemicist? 

Kurt Becher isn't mentioned by bloggers - unlike you, they know when they're on a loser.

adwil said:  3) Admit there is absolutely nobody (else) in the world who has ever made this defense." What a silly thing to say. How would I know?

Your own postings betray you - you leapt to his defense with a series of angry postings. I'll not spam the Forum with them - but you wished he could sue me among other things.

adwil said:  There's very little on the subject of Kurt Becher, probably because he was never 'central or 'important. He's just a minor player in the Eichmann led Hungarian Holocaust 

Kurt Becher was central to the robbing of the Jews of Hungary. Your own sources say so.

adwil said: ... best known for co-operating with the Jewish Aid  and Rescue group, the Vaada and helping Kastner save Jewish lives at great personal risk. 

You're a complete fraud.

adwil said:  4) Tell us what's in the book ... "Self-financing Genocide: The Gold Train, the Becher Case and the Wealth of Hungarian Jews" 2004  5) Or in "The Gold Train: The Destruction of the Jews and the Looting of Hungary" ...  I suggest you refresh your memory of the 'Gold Train' by reading the summary in  "Rosner, et al. v. United States of America, Docket No. 01-1859-CIV-SEITZ." 

Bizarre argument from you - Becher is named as a very serious villain (though not everything he did is recorded) in the two books you recommended!

To claim he wasn't involved because another document doesn't mention is simply - very bizarre.

adwil said: ... Becher isn't mentioned because he had nothing at all to do with the Gold Train which was organised by the Hungarian Government. You believe he had, because there is another separate section in the book looking at the Weiss-Mann takeover, that Becher actually did organise.  

So you know that Becher was a Jew-robber on an enormous scale. 

adwil said:  OK. Next question.

You've answered my question - Karl Becher's biggest coup was forcing the Jewish owners of the Weiss-Mann works (half of all Hungarian industry???) to sign over all their property in exchange for payments they'd recieve in exile in Portugal. (Very little of what they ever received).

bml00

From: bml00

Oct-21

On the ropes for the umpteenth time ,well done .

Cant wait for the usual squirm wriggle and excuses -

BM

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Oct-21

Everything Adwil has posted is nonsense.

Kurt Becher is universally condemned as a war-criminal - Israel would have liked him to visit Jerusalem and testify for Kastner - Israel's Attorney General said that if he were to set foot in Israel he would be arrested.

That position is taken as read in both books that Adwil claims to have read (as should be obvious from the title of one of them!).

Adwil cannot find even one blogger, let alone "accredited historian" who even hints otherwise.

He's only found one article that doesn't mention Kurt Becher - his offering it here just proves what an astoundingly weak case he has.

adwil

From: adwil

Oct-21

BerrySteph said:

So you know that Becher was a Jew-robber on an enormous scale. 

No, I don't know that. 

The Weiss-Manfred affair didn't benefit Becher. He had orders to arrange a takeover of the factories behind the back of the Hungarian Government and negotiated with the family, offering to arrange for most of the Jewish part of the family to seek asylum in Portugal or Switzerland and pay over a substantial amount of money. He kept his word and had most of the family smuggled out to safe countries along with the Hungarian officials who had facilitated the deal because it was thought that the Hungarian Government would retaliate against them. The new trustees (the SS) failed to pay over all the cash that had been promised for their 26 year lease. Becher was hardly in a position to argue months after with senior officers.  

You can find further information below from the account of the Hungarian legal counsel who was deeply involved in the negotiations with Becher.  This is a primary source.

http://epa.oszk.hu/01400/01462/00012/pdf/023-034.pdf

bml00

From: bml00

Oct-21

Numb nuts is as usual on the ropes

BM

adwil

From: adwil

Oct-21

"Adwil cannot find even one blogger,"

I don't use 'bloggers' or propagandists or polemicists or rumourmongers. Find me primary evidence or find me secondary documentary evidence if you really want to discuss an issue.

"Kurt Becher is universally condemned as a war-criminal "

I'm not interested in rumour mongering. If he was 'universally condemned,' why wasn't he put on trial at Nuremberg or one of the other trials of Nazi war criminals after the war? Why did the two attempts to prosecute him and his companions in the cavalry unit fall through lack of evidence? 

"Israel's Attorney General said that if he were to set foot in Israel he would be arrested." 

On what basis? The only evidence available at that time was from a Zionist extremist American polemicist film writer, Ben Hecht, who, according to Deborah Lipstadt, was unreliable because he invented his 'facts'.

 "It's not historical ... The problem is lots of the information in it is, is wrong!"

"BBC documentary Setting the Past Free, May 9, 2016. The segment on Perfidy starts at 17 minutes, 47 seconds in."

If the Israeli Government had the evidence to charge Becher, they could have applied to the German Gov for his extradition. They didn't.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Oct-21

adwil said:

The Weiss-Manfred affair didn't benefit Becher.

You're a full bore Nazi-excuser and apologist.

Your excuses for Jew-robbing and killing just get more and more silly.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Oct-21

adwil said:

On what basis? The only evidence available at that time was from a Zionist extremist American polemicist film writer, Ben Hecht, who, according to Deborah Lipstadt, was unreliable because he invented his 'facts'.

You lie. 

And you know enough of this case for it to be a malicious falsehood.

adwil

From: adwil

Oct-21

BerrySteph said:

"You lie.  And you know enough of this case for it to be a malicious falsehood."

<<according to Deborah Lipstadt, .......he invented his 'facts'.>>

You have the link to the BBC program. Click on it and you can listen to Lipstadt  saying exactly what I've quoted.

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