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Niqab, burka and veils   The U.K and Europe

Started 2/20/20 by Di (amina046); 4434 views.
BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

3/1/20

RGoss99 said:

True about wealh and learning and also true that the Roman ethnic cleansing was not true, but the racist thing started with the Christians about the same time as the "Return" thing. 

What racist thing?

Here's a credible account of what really happened between the Christians and the Jews:

"Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years" - Professor Israel Shahak

... There was however one area in which they were not allowed to remain self-contented - the area of Christian attacks against those passages in the Talmud and the talmudic literature which are specifically anti-Christian or more generally anti-Gentile.

It is important to note that this challenge developed relatively late in the history of Christian-Jewish relations - only from the 13th century on. (Before that time, the Christian authorities attacked Judaism using either Biblical or general arguments, but seemed to be quite ignorant as to the contents of the Talmud.)

The Christian campaign against the Talmud was apparently brought on by the conversion to Christianity of Jews who were well versed in the Talmud and who were in many cases attracted by the development of Christian philosophy, with its strong Aristotelian (and thus universal) character.14

It must be admitted at the outset that the Talmud and the talmudic literature - quite apart from the general anti-Gentile streak that runs through them, which will be discussed in greater detail in Chapter 5 - contain very offensive statements and precepts directed specifically against Christianity.

For example, in addition to a series of scurrilous sexual allegations against Jesus, the Talmud states that his punishment in hell is to be immersed in boiling excrement - a statement not exactly calculated to endear the Talmud to devout Christians. Or one can quote the precept according to which Jews are instructed to burn, publicly if possible, any copy of the New Testament that comes into their hands. (This is not only still in force but actually practiced today; thus on 23 March 1980 hundreds of copies of the New Testament were publicly and ceremonially burnt in Jerusalem under the auspices of Yad Le'akhim, a Jewish religious organization subs subsidized by the Israeli Ministry of Religions.)

Anyway, a powerful attack, well based in many points, against talmudic Judaism developed in Europe from the 13th century. We are not referring here to ignorant calumnies, such as the blood libel, propagated by benighted monks in small provincial cities, but to serious disputations held before the best European universities of the time and on the whole conducted as fairly as was possible under medieval circumstances.15 "Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years" http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=avh6dkSop0EC - search for "totalitarian history" or go to page 20.

Shahak is of course hated and virulently smeared as antisemitic despite being a Polish-born Holocaust survivor (Bergen-Belsen 1943 age 10), serving in an elite regiment of the IDF, and becoming a professor of chemistry at Hebrew University (1963-1990). Only in 1967 did the scales fall from his eyes.

Oops, not that I believe a word of what he says of course.

In reply toRe: msg 131
bml00

From: bml00

3/1/20

The Midrash about the 3 oaths can be found in the umpteen Talmudic debates going back to the time of the Babylonian enslavement of the Jews , its origins are in the Song of Songs and if anybody is further interested I will be more than happy to introduce them to either the Rabbinic Courts in the UK or the US or Israel where you can freely ask any question.

The sad distraction from Numb Nuts wont change the history of the 3 oaths which can be found on line in umpteen debates which historically are 2500 years old or more

BM

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

3/1/20

RGoss99 said:

the part of the false myth that is true is that after Christ (around 75 a.d.)  they rebelled and lost their relative autonomy as a result. Remember that into the time of Christ they had Roman approved Jewish client kings.   

Who rebelled? Not the scholars and priests, who were clearly wealthy and engaged in a vast theological debate producing an ultimate holy document and law book.

Those scribes and scholars could have been paid directly by Rome or maybe they were wealthy merchants retiring from Rome to California on the Med where the delightful citrus grew.

In either case the Jewish establishment were not the smallest bit threatened by Rome - only by jealous locals from the hill village where the Romans built a fort (overlooking the small "Jewish" temple nearby). That rebellion/resistance movement was seemingly more stupid than any other in history, factions burning each others grain stores.

RGoss99 said:

In Rome, the column of Trajan about 100 a.d. shows recognizeable loot from the Second Jewish temple.  

Its actually the Arch of Titan which is said to have this evidence - strangely, I cannot find any close up photography and commentary. Yes, there is a Menorah being displayed but I'm not seeing anything which makes it loot. 

RGoss99 said:

Aside: there are many false stories about conquerors ethnic cleaansing. What these usually boil down to is that the conquerors wiped out the ruleing establishment, and took over, often intermarried and settled dwn. Parallel example when the Vikings took the Isle of Man, they settled in with local wives. This shows because conqueror name places (Manx place names are Viking) but mothers teach kids to speak and the Manx language is gaelic.

In Palestine the element that was put down wasn't the ruling elite, it was the Zealots. As dangerous and unpleasant a gang as they sound.

Most of our ancestors were certainly wiped out 2000 years ago, not just in Norwich and Anglesey but throughout England.

So completely that the remnants were almost entirely unable to resist the immigration of the Angles and Saxons.

RGoss99 said:

Aside: there are many false stories about conquerors ethnic cleaansing. ...  the same thing goes for Carthage, just because they lost the Punic Wars and the Romans symbolicly sewed salt in their fields, does not mean the Carthaginians did not end up ancesters of Tunisians today.

Are the Tunisians the descendants of the Carthaginians? Those city people could have been completely wiped out and the farmers all transported to cultivate Italy.

There is no question that the Romans were capable of ethnic cleansing, carrying off slaves for their mines and other works in Italy.

In reply toRe: msg 134
bml00

From: bml00

3/1/20

SO there were no Jewish revolts during the Roman Occupation and the Jews gave the Menorah to the Romans to polish ?

Numb nuts cant find any close up photography found in 2 seconds along with perhaps 1000 or more

Decorative sculpture[edit]

The spandrels on the upper left and right of the arch contain personifications of victory as winged women. Between the spandrels is the keystone, on which there stands a female on the east side and a male on the west side.[14]

The soffit of the axial archway is deeply coffered with a relief of the apotheosis of Titus at the center. The sculptural program also includes two panel reliefs lining the passageway within the arch. Both commemorate the joint triumph celebrated by Titus and his father Vespasian in the summer of 71.

The south inner panel depicts the spoils taken from the Temple in Jerusalem. The golden candelabrum or Menorah is the main focus and is carved in deep relief.[16] Other sacred objects being carried in the triumphal procession are the Gold Trumpets, the fire pans for removing the ashes from the altar, and the Table of Shewbread.[14] These spoils were likely originally colored gold, with the background in blue.[14] In 2012 the Arch of Titus Digital Restoration Project discovered remains of yellow ochre paint on the menorah relief.
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  • Edited March 1, 2020 6:38 am  by  bml00
BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

3/1/20

bml00 said:

The sad distraction from Numb Nuts wont change the history of the 3 oaths which can be found on line in umpteen debates which historically are 2500 years old or more

The Three Oaths were laid down as Jewish law again by Maimonides (the RamBam - Born: 1138, Córdoba, Spain, Died: 13 December 1204, Fustat, Egypt)

Nobody disputed them until around 1780, when Jews were released from the feudal system in most places.

And in fact, you've assured me that Zionism was born in Vilna at almost exactly that time 

BM -> The Gaon through his understanding decided that the return to Israel was NOT predicated upon the arrival of the Messiah ... diminishing number of Jews who have decided that they cannot return to Israel until the Messiah arrives, for the others (the vast majority) because of the Gaon have decided to return https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZNIWBiIxBI

Naturally, I'm only a student learning at your feet - but this blurb seems respectable and Zionist.

https://www.amazon.com/Gaon-Vilna-His-Messianic-Vision-ebook/dp/B00996J6T2

The Gaon of Vilna and His Messianic Vision Kindle Edition  by Arie Morgenstern  (Author)

1990 a document was discovered in Poland, according to which the Gaon of Vilna (1720 1797) stopped in Amsterdam on his way to Erez Israel. Research based on this astonishing find, detailed in this book, brought about a chain of dramatic discoveries that fundamentally altered our knowledge of the historic figure of the Gaon of Vilna.

One such discovery reveals that the journey to Erez Israel transpired in the year 1778, three years prior to 1781 the year set as the end time by the kabbalists of that generation, including the Gaon of Vilna himself.

This book demonstrates that the Gaon of Vilna traveled to Erez Israel in order to compose a new Shulh an arukh, a final halakhic code that would bring an end to halakhic disputes within the Jewish people. In this way he hoped to ensure the Messiah s arrival in the year 1781.

Mysteriously, the Gaon of Vilna abandoned his dream, reporting that Heaven had prevented him. By following in the Gaon s footsteps, The Gaon of Vilna and His Messianic Vision uncovers the cause of his aborted journey and the revolutionary approach to redemption that the Gaon subsequently developed. 

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

3/1/20

bml00 said:

SO there were no Jewish revolts during the Roman Occupation 

There were loads of revolts against the puppet government - one of them completely peaceful and the Romans were so incensed that, with the approval of the crowd, they hung the worst villain on a cross and cruxified him.

bml00 said:

Numb nuts cant find any close up photography found in 2 seconds along with perhaps 1000 or more

Show me. I can see the Menorah in many photos but no close up details.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

3/1/20

Oops, sorry, you have found a good quality picture.

But you're a bad man, you're supposed to credit (as I always try to do).

And, while it could have come from Jerusalem it wasn't taken from the priestly establishment but from the Zealots.

By derivative work: Steerpike (talk)Arc_de_Triumph_copy.jpg: user: ??? ????? - Arc_de_Triumph_copy.jpg, CC BY 3.0, Link
Menorah, Trophies from Jerusalem, Arch of Titus : News Photo

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

3/1/20

BM's picture (as he managed to cunningly conceal in a sloppily presented post!) appears to show a modern reproduction of the Roman frieze.

Arc de Triumph copy.jpg - "Roman Triumphal arch panel copy from Beth Hatefutsoth, showing spoils of Jerusalem temple."

Every possibility its a modern "reconstruction", a virtual forgery. Pictures of the original may show it very different.

No wonder that, when I went looking for pictures of the original, I couldn't find any close-ups whatsoever.

This is the modern and likely inaccurate replica:

bml00

From: bml00

3/1/20

The photo is a Getty Original found on Google according to Berry Getty are liars ..

Wonder if the lad from west London would like to challenge Getty in court and tell them their photo is a fake ?

bm

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