Coalition of the Confused

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Confused malcontents swilling Chardonnay while awaiting the Zombie Apocalypse.

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Decades of sexual harassment    America - all of it

Started 10/6/17 by Johneeo; 37524 views.
Di (amina046)

From: Di (amina046)

Dec-22

Actually he is not of any importance in this case and, either way, will not testify.

jra2750

From: jra2750

Dec-23

If either of these women went to Trump's room and stayed there?  They have NO complaint.  

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Dec-24

jra2750 said:

If either of these women went to Trump's room and stayed there?  They have NO complaint.  

You must live in a very nasty society.

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)

Dec-25

John pops in every once and again.

I miss him.

He might check his Christmas joke.

Do you two go back to Wits End?

RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Dec-25

Interesting thought. Since Andrew has no legal status other the a U.K. citizen, extradition laws can apply, considering the crime he is accused of in the U.S. is no different then similar crimes in the U.S. 

The tricky things are statute of limitations and the U.S. state department wimping out so as not to offend the monarchy. Note that the queen has ordered that he step down from all his royal patronages, but I have not heard anybody commenting on his place in the order of succession which seems to be dropping every time his brother gets another grand child.

bml00

From: bml00

Dec-25

IF Mrs Ann Seculas can claim Diplomatic Immunity how do You know what the Prince can pull out the bag?

BM

RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Dec-25

Of course I don´t but there is an element of power here. Trump cares more about his base, which, when it suits him, is all Americans, including those who get caught being stupid in foreign countries with "inferior" court systems. The U.K. needs the U.S. more then the U.S. needs the U.K. 

Anther aspect, supposedly Seculas is covered by diplomatic immunity becasuse supposedly she represents the U.S. and this is guaranteed by treaty. However the prince, for his Epstein adventures was just a playboy tourist, not sent by his government, e.g. prince or not,he is just another tourist breaking the law.

BTW, while I am aware of the Seculas situation, I have not been following it. If the U.S. is Smart, it Will probably do a "quid pro quo" to make the problema go away quietly.

Personally, I have no problem with the concept of diplomatic immunity at the Embassy or counselor level, but when it gets down to those lower on the food chain, it is often abused for avoiding taxes, tariffs, smuggling, and all sorts of other personal private business. Especially in New York which probably has the highest proportion of immune "diplomats" in the world. 

Here in Mallorca, there are two types of diplomats: 1. countries such as in the E.U. and OTAN, Israel, Morocco, have consulates. which have personal and territorial immunity. However of the other countries I know of, they have honorary cousuls, basicly part timer local residents of specific countries who work out of their homes or some office - these have neither territorial nor personal diplomatic immunity. I also know that for those with immunity, it is usually personal to perhaps two people. I discovered this when an English brat whose father was the British councul, got into trouble, and claimed immunity, the cops, courts, just laughed at him. He avoided jail when his father paid a fine for him so he could be sent home.

I don´t know if you are aware of a difference between the U.S. and Spanish system, we don´t like supporting people in jail, so many things that guarantee prison in the U.S. are solved by fines. 

As elsewhere there is the element of connections (the local Word is "enchufes" [sockets in English]. For example when the ex king´s son in law, got convicted (and charges and trials are not over yet) his wife, lost the title duchess, and moved from Barcelona to Switzerland, because his kids were embarassed at their private school. I don´t know how many years on the former duke´s sentence but for the second time, he ha petitioned for a 6 day leave from prison, so he can be with his family on Christmas - and got it. I doubt if you or I wrote a bad check and got jail time, we would get the same treatment.

OT, the duchss got off, after all she was just his wife, and put her signiture on illegal documents, because her husband asked her to (actually I think she was the Smart one using royal influence peddling in the first place. When the couple were married, they renamed the previously fascist named ramble, as Rambla of the Dukes of Palma. Before they abolished the Duchy of Palma, I took a photo of the elegent marble street sign. The Duchess had to appear in court for her trial. Parking is a problem in Palma, so when I have to be in court, there is an underground 3 story Deep car park under the avenue in front of the court, where I park, but the duchess does not do public car Parks, so she got permission to take the ramp into the basement of the court house that the judges use - thus avoiding the protesters on the public sidewalks out side. On this occasion, I enlarged my photo to actual size of the original sign, but changed the letters in Photoshop to read "Sa Rampa dels Ducs de Palma" and the night before her trial pasted it over the normal Street sign for the judges ramp. Security was a bit ahead of me because by the time I arrived at the demonstration it had been removed. However a Little bit late, because the early demonstraters saw it, and before it was removed they photographed it, went to a photocopy shop, and printed up a bunch of actual sized copies to put on sitcks, so when I got there I saw about 20 copies of my sign. 

bml00

From: bml00

Dec-25

I do not have any knowledge on the law relating to diplomatic immunity or the power or reach of the US regarding the Epstein case however I am sure Prince Andrew will not be extradited nor stand trial or even be questioned 

Trump is not going to fall out with the British over the Epstein case 

BM

RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Dec-26

I agree, so his only "punishment" is the queen´s displeasure and being off the oficial royal payroll for a while. There is some confusión in America about nobility and royalty. Unlike Europe the number of noble titles is fixed, unless the queen creates new titles. Even this is limited because it has been a long time since the queen created any thing but life peerages, so the baron´s kids don´t inherit their titles. What is confusing is courtesy titles.  For example "prince" does not get you a seat in Lords, nor is it hereditary, and the kids of princes only have courtesy titles which carry no income, lands, or priveleges (except where you get to sit at the table). Princess Diana was not nobiity, she was a commoner, the "lady" Diana was also a courtesy title given to the daughter of a nobleman, her brother, Viscount Althorpe´s title was also a courtesy one (no seat in Lords), which lasted until his father died then he became Earl Spencer, a nobleman with a seat in lords. Actually the number of British nobility is decreasing, because noble titles can not be divided. 

For example, if Diana was an only child and lived and did not divorce Charles, when her father died, she would be princess of Wales, and Countess Spencer then the title would go to Prince Charles eldest son, and disappear as a courtesy title tied to the Duke of Cornwall. 

In other words he a nobleman marries a noble woman, the  their eldest son gets both titles. so the list of nobles is minus one. The only way for this not to happen is if the noble marries a commoner.

Similar in Spain where the present king´s two sisters were made duchesses when they got maried, their husbands as consorts became courtesy dukes. However the oldes daughter, tilll a duchess (Lugo), divorced husband lost his title, and the children are and Will be just commoners. Because of corruption, the youngest daughter be came simply "Mrs" when the King "retired" the title Duke of Palma, her kids are simply commoners and Will remain so.

Another difference in Spain, is that titles include no income, so the nobles have to earn their own living, no castles or lands attached. The English titled nobility don´t have to work at all but can live off their lands. (this is getting difficult for them because they have to pay inheritance taxes - example being the late Queen Mother, she was a commoner until she married the Duke of York who then became King, but her brother inherited the earldoms and died befoe he paid his inheritance, so the title moved sideways 3x, each time another inheritance tax. So the present Earl and Countess live in a garaje apartment behind the Glames Castle - making ends meet via tourists.

In case you did not pick up on it, the Queen really did a number on Trump in his first visit. The Obamas had dinner at the queen´s place, but Blenheim Palace is not royal, just another noble house trying to make a living off tourists.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Dec-26

RGoss99 said:

I agree, so his only "punishment" is the queen´s displeasure and being off the oficial royal payroll for a while.

It appears that our glorious tradition as a monarchy is to be tapered down to not very much. Ditching Royals is part of the process and that's what's happened to Andrew.

Harry and Meghan too by the look of it.

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