Coalition of the Confused

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Confused malcontents swilling Chardonnay while awaiting the Zombie Apocalypse.

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The rise of the far right   World Wide WTF?

Started 5/19/19 by Jenifer (Zarknorph); 19814 views.
adwil

From: adwil

Mar-2

"if she's not claiming that 9 million died in the Holocaust, what is she claiming?"

Far more than 9 million died during the Holocaust. I believe 17 million is the currently accepted figure. Of these, 6 million approximately were Jews.

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host
adwil said:

Popular with Far Right and Far left and religionists of all sorts.

I'm trying to think of what a far left conspiracy theory would be...

Perhaps that magnates like the Koch brothers influenced politicians to ignore climate change warnings?

Wait...

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host
BerrySteph said:

What do you think of people who blatantly lie about the Holocaust?

I'd say they have serious hatred toward Jews, homosexuals, Slavs, Soviets, Gypsies, Spanish, Leftists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Freemasons and people with disabilities.

Why else would they deny it ever happened?

adwil

From: adwil

Mar-2

Jenifer (Zarknorph) said:

I'm trying to think of what a far left conspiracy theory would be...

The Babylonian Brotherhood  controls the world to visit genocide on African-Americans..  The New World Order is trying to control the world with its capital city buried under Denver airport. Freemasons control the world. Jews control the world and are responsible for all the wars because they make a profit from them. 

The US Government arranged and implemented 9/11 and are responsible for most of the 'nasty' things that happen around the world.

ISIS was created by the CIA or Mossad or Hillary Clinton.

Left conspiracy blames the US for most things.

They're nuts.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Mar-2

adwil said:

Far more than 9 million died during the Holocaust. I believe 17 million is the currently accepted figure. Of these, 6 million approximately were Jews.

Your mentors are clearly feeding you again - thats a quite different argument from the dishonest one you started with.

It is true that others have suggested that the Nazis murdered 17 million for their faith or racial origin (eg mass-murder of Russian POWs)

But Deborah Lipstadt has never treated the Holocaust like that - she is solely concerned with the death of the 6 million Jews.

There is nothing in her book "Denying the Holocaust" which mentions the POWs - other than passages pointing out that the Red Cross supposedly protected them - but did nothing for the Jews! You should know all of that.

And the coup de grace, demolishing your pathetic excuses is that the quote from the cover of her Lipstadt's book is this one, as you've seen from me repeatedly:

"those who insist that the death of six million Jews in Nazi concentration camps is nothing but a hoax perpetrated by a powerful Zionist conspiracy"

I've just made a slip over the exact provenance of the Hasidim (not the Hadisim as BM calls them!) - they've been an important branch in Judaism for at least 2000 years but they didn't have a group of that name until the breakdown of the feudal system.

adwil

From: adwil

Mar-2

BerrySteph said:

"those who insist that the death of six million Jews in Nazi concentration camps is nothing but a hoax perpetrated by a powerful Zionist conspiracy"

What's your problem with the quote?

ramseylurker

From: ramseylurker

Mar-2

Typically, they play on popular prejudices, and use those as wedges to divide folks. Migrants are often a good scapegoat, as a couple of folks posting here in this thread amply demonstrate. When somebody seeks to sow division, history shows that the smart thing to do is to check the facts, in order to distinguish friends from enemies.
 
The Story of the Ku Klux Klan in America and in Iowa
 
The Beginnings of the Klan
 
In 1865, after the Civil War, some white people in the South decided to form a group to protect themselves and to terrorize black people. Black people, who had been slaves before and during the war, became free after the war. Some white people who previously had all the power and wealth, resented their losses and feared retaliation by the newly freed blacks. The people who organized this group called it the Ku Klux Klan (KKK). It lasted only a few years, disbanding in 1869.
 
However, a half century later, during World War I (1914-1918), the KKK began to reorganize. It was prompted by a movie, The Birth of a Nation, which showed the first Ku Klux Klan organizing to defend white people, especially women, against blacks, especially men. The movie played in Des Moines in 1916. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) protested. The members were afraid that it would create a backlash against blacks. For the NAACP, which had just organized in Des Moines in 1915, this was one of its first actions.
 
The Klan Moves Into Iowa
 
The Klan gained strength after the First World War, drawing from white Protestants in small towns and cities. The beginning of a serious movement came in 1920 when a paid recruiter was hired. The Klan appealed to people who believed their beliefs were superior to the beliefs of immigrants, Catholics, Jews or “colored people.” The Klan supported what they called “clean living” and attacked “dope, bootlegging, graft, night clubs and road houses, violation of the Sabbath, unfair business dealings, sex, marital 'goings-on,' and scandalous behavior."
 
Although the Klan had started in the South, it began to gain strength in the Midwest. There were many followers in Iowa—in Davenport, Sioux City, Waterloo, Ottumwa and Des Moines, among bigger cities. But it had followers in smaller communities too—Centerville, Manly, Cherokee and Red Oak. Several groups opposed the Klan, including the newly formed American Legion, Masons and the Farm Bureau, as well as the NAACP.
 
In their ceremonial and public occasions, Klan members wore white sheets with peaked hoods. They took on fantastic titles, such as Imperial Wizard, Imperial Kleagle (chief of staff), Grand Goblin (sales manager) and Grand Dragon. They had special names for membership fees (Klectoken). A particular sign of their presence in a community was a burning cross, which they would set up and light in the front yards of those they wanted to frighten.
 
The Klan’s peak year was in 1924, when they influenced many elections across the country, including an Iowa race for the United States Senate. The Klan helped the campaigns of many school board members, succeeding in electing representatives of their point of view, but in 1926 many of them were voted out.
 
There were many other ways that the Klan upset people. One was to stride silently in uniform into a church, and deposit money at the altar. One black congregation in Centerville, a coal-mining town in southeastern Iowa, received $100 this way. Many of the church’s members thought that the Klan was their friend after that.
 
Friend or Enemy?
 
But one woman, Emma Simms, didn’t think so. Emma wrote to the national office of the NAACP about her concerns. Robert Bagnall, an NAACP official, wrote back to her explaining that the Klan tried to gain favor with some groups, in order to separate them from their allies. Specifically, in Centerville, they tried to separate the blacks and the Jews. They planned to isolate first the Jews and later deal with the blacks. So Emma had a letter she could take and read to people who had been fooled by the gift from the Klan.
 
In Sioux City in northwest Iowa, some white officials proposed constructing a cemetery solely for colored people. A newspaper editor, J.N. Boyd, wrote to Robert Bagnall at the NAACP, complaining about this proposal. Robert wrote back to him suggesting that the Klan was behind the proposal. He said the black community should protest loudly.
 
In Des Moines the Klan gained support from some white Protestants in neighborhoods near Italian Catholic and black communities. These Klan supporters feared the cultural and ethnic differences of their new Catholic and black neighbors. The NAACP and Council of Churches joined forces to create Interracial Council in 1924. The council tried to end discrimination in a number of ways, from swimming pools to schools. Some historians think this may have been in response to the activities the Klan was carrying out.
 
In the little town of Manly in north central Iowa where blacks and Catholics had come to work on the railroads in the years before World War I, the Klan tried to intimidate both groups. Others in the town fought back, ridiculing the Klan. After many years there were strong signs of racial harmony. An example was in 1951 when a black homecoming king and queen, Leroy Dunn and Delores Dunn, were crowned at the high school.
 
The Klan Declines
 
The Klan died down nationally and in Iowa by 1930. There had been five to six million Klan members in 1924. There were probably fewer than 100,000 in the whole country by 1930. They were seen as cruel, foolish and unethical. They were denounced widely. Also, when the Great Depression hit, people preferred not to spend scarce dollars on membership in the Klan.

The Klan officially disbanded in 1944 when the federal government demanded payment of more than $600,000 in back taxes. It reorganized in 1946 and continued to operate against blacks, mainly in the South, until the 1970s. Klan members wanted to intimidate blacks to prevent them from voting or gaining power. But the national civil rights movement succeeded in empowering so many blacks, that the Klan had little influence.
 
Another resurgence of the Klan came in the 1980s, protesting affirmative action programs that tried to create a better balance of white and black students in colleges and black and white employees in government. This latest resurgence touched Iowa, at least symbolic
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RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Mar-2

Don´t get me wrong, the KKK is bad news, but can you document that "some white people in the South decided to form a group to protect themselves and to terrorize black people." You claim a list of "facts" but cite no author or source. Why is that, where did this quote come from. Until you can answer that, your post is simply something you dreamed up to support something you already believe. the following does not agree with you ...

Ku Klux Klan -- Exremism in America. Anti-defamation League, 2011, 

ramseylurker

From: ramseylurker

Mar-2

RGoss99 said...

You claim a list of "facts" but cite no author or source. Why is that, where did this quote come from. Until you can answer that, your post is simply something you dreamed up to support something you already believe. 

I didn't copy the references (the text was long enough), nor did I write it. 

And I sure as hell didn't dream anything up.

I did, however, provide a link to the source (PBS). Do you know how to click on links? The author has a name. 

What is wrong with you? Do you always behave like this? If so, why should anybody take anything you say seriously? 

RGoss99

From: RGoss99

Mar-2

addint, Iowa Pathways, is hardly a standard source, note that my source disagrees with you anyway.

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