Coalition of the Confused

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Confused malcontents swilling Chardonnay while awaiting the Zombie Apocalypse.

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The rise of the far right   World Wide WTF?

Started 5/19/19 by Jenifer (Zarknorph); 19837 views.
BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Mar-4

Your map is from 60 years earlier.

The "Red Summer" was a fresh wave of major pogroms in 1920.

You cannot pretend that the blacks of the 1860s were actually welcome in the North - they were very unwelcome. Many/most became refugees in Canada.

Settled US policy remained, even after the Civil War, was to ethnically cleanse the blacks to another continent.

The Underground Railway was clearly very unpopular and illegal everywhere.

At its peak, nearly 1,000 slaves per year escaped from slave-holding states using the Underground Railroad – more than 5,000 court cases for escaped slaves were recorded – many fewer than the natural increase of the enslaved population. The resulting economic impact was minuscule

... With heavy lobbying by southern politicians, the Compromise of 1850 was passed by Congress after the Mexican–American War. It stipulated a more stringent Fugitive Slave Law; ostensibly, the compromise addressed regional problems by compelling officials of free states to assist slave catchers, granting them immunity to operate in free states.[12] Because the law required sparse documentation to claim a person was a fugitive, slave catchers also kidnapped free blacks, especially children, and sold them into slavery.[13] Southern politicians often exaggerated the number of escaped slaves and often blamed these escapes on Northerners interfering with Southern property rights.[14] The law deprived suspected slaves of the right to defend themselves in court, making it difficult to prove free status. In a de facto bribe,[15] judges were paid a higher fee ($10) for a decision that confirmed a suspect as a slave than for one ruling that the suspect was free ($5). Many Northerners who might have ignored slave issues in the South were confronted by local challenges that bound them to support slavery.

Is there a single case of these abolitionists actually taking the fugitives into their homes? I cannot find any - which makes Americans much less warm-hearted to the blacks than the Germans and Polish were to the Jews!

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Mar-4

adwil said:

About 3.1 million Jews were murdered in the extermination camps. How many died in  other camps from starvation, diseases like typhus, from being worked to death? How many Jews died on the 'death marches'? How many Jews were machine-gunned in Baltic forests after they'd dug their own graves? 

Why are you asking me? Is there no compilation of these deaths? Where does your 3.1 million come from? Killed in extermination camps - where do you get that? Treblinka was definitely an extermination camp, and the Hungarian Jews were exterminated at Auschwitz - but that only comes to 437,000 betrayed by Kastner. How many of the others were exterminated as distinct from died in labour camps?

adwil said:

We know roughly how many Jews lived in Europe before the Holocaust. 

Do we? Not all starved to death in the Holodomor or murdered in their millions by Stalin? Not murdered by the antisemitic Polish - the people who devised the Madagascar Plan?

adwil said:

About 6 million Jewish people are missing and that's the likely death toll.

The only reason we can be confident of that is that it was calculated by Raul Hilberg against bitter opposition, including from Yad Vashem.

We're sure not having any confidence when a top Holocaust scholar says this:

"those who insist that the death of six million Jews in Nazi concentration camps is nothing but a hoax perpetrated by a powerful Zionist conspiracy"

A statement that's patently untrue - six million is not the number of deaths in the camps let alone "extermination camps" as you're now claiming. Lipstadt seems to have more than doubled the real figure:

Total death in camps is at least 2,848,000. Auschwitz complex 1 million, Treblinka 2 925,000, Belzec: 434,508, Sobibor: at least 167,000, Chelmno: 156,000–172,000, other facilities that the Germans designated as concentration camps: at least 150,000. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution

Its not a very important falsehood - but why be so sloppy about a number that others are jailed for disputing?

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Mar-4

Jenifer (Zarknorph) said:

A lot of these sound like right wing conspiracies. Either way, they're all stupid.

Nothing stupid about alleging that people with whom Bush was very friendly were behind 911.

The vast majority of Americans - a staggering 81% - think JFK's killing was a conspiracy.

April 11, 2001 - The vast majority of Americans believe the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy, one of the most infamous events in American history, was a conspiracy. A Gallup poll from March of this year shows that over 8 in 10 Americans (81%) believe that other people were involved in a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy. Only 13% of the public believes that just one man (Lee Harvey Oswald) acted alone. These recent results match the high point of those believing in a conspiracy, a percentage that has increased since the 1960s. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1813/most-americans-believe-oswald-conspired-others-kill-jfk.aspx

In fact, excluding the "Don't Knows" the figure is 86%!

Unless you're going to tell me that nearly all Americans are delusional and I'd hate to contradict you.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Mar-4

Jenifer (Zarknorph) said:

Yes he did. It was a link at the bottom.

Time-wasters like Adwil demand the same thing be repeated over and over again.

But that's not what I'm doing - I'm asking for a link .

"Ku Klux Klan -- Exremism in America. Anti-defamation League, 2011, " is not a link.

And the ADL (as you claimed to know nothing about) proves itself to be viciously racist.

In fact, the ADL would be better calling itself the "Defamation League", since it specializes in accusing anyone who criticizes Israel of antisemitism. It was sued for defamation in 1994 and 6 years later lost the case, [http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/13674/edition_id/264/format/html/displaystory.html "Judge fines ADL $10.5 million] in Colorado defamation suit". In 2004 a final appeal against this decision was rejected by the Supreme Court. 

In 1993 Arab American, Black and Native American groups filed a lawsuit, claiming the ADL paid a former San Francisco Police officer and a CIA agent to spy on them. In 1999 the ADL agreed to pay $175,000 for their court costs, promised to stop collecting protected personal information, removed sensitive information such as criminal records from its files, and spent $25,000 on efforts to improve it's relationships with these minority groups. Has the ADL learned anything about such relationships? It's web-site [http://www.adl.org/antisemitism_survey/survey_print.asp says]: "black Americans remain considerably more likely than white Americans to hold anti-Semitic views". 

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Mar-4

Jenifer (Zarknorph) said:

I'd say they have serious hatred toward Jews, homosexuals, Slavs, Soviets, Gypsies, Spanish, Leftists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Freemasons and people with disabilities. Why else would they deny it ever happened?

That's a pretty pathetic response - I've repeatedly posted the names of people either from within the Holocaust Industry who have lied (Wiesenthal, Wiesel, nobody's denied what I've said about them) - or licensed by the Holocaust Industry to lie about it. Defonseka and Wilkomirski.

Meanwhile, who is there denying the Holocaust?

All the hype notwithstanding, there is no evidence that Holocaust deniers exert any more influence in the United States than the flat-earth society does. Given the nonsense churned out daily by the Holocaust industry, the wonder is that there are so few skeptics. The motive behind the claim of widespread Holocaust denial is not hard to find. In a society saturated with The Holocaust, how else to justify yet more museums, books, curricula, films and programs than to conjure up the bogy of Holocaust denial? Thus Deborah Lipstadt's acclaimed book, Denying the Holocaust," as well as the results of an ineptly worded American Jewish Committee poll alleging pervasive Holocaust denial," were released just as the Washington Holocaust Memorial Museum opened.

Denying the Holocaust is an updated version of the "new anti-Semitism" tracts. To document widespread Holocaust denial, Lipstadt cites a handful of crank publications. Her piece de resistance is Arthur Butz, a nonentity who teaches electrical engineering at Northwestern University and who published his book The Hoax of the Twentieth Century with an obscure press. Lipstadt entitles the chapter on him "Entering the Mainstream." Were it not for the likes of Lipstadt, no one would ever have heard of Arthur Butz. p.68 "The Holocaust Industry" Norman Finkelstein.

ramseylurker

From: ramseylurker

Mar-4

BerrySteph said...

The Underground Railway was clearly very unpopular and illegal everywhere.

...

Is there a single case of these abolitionists actually taking the fugitives into their homesI cannot find any

Me.

I'm an abolitionist, and my wife, like her ancestors 500 years ago, was a so-called "illegal" at the time. Una negra fugitiva.

The government tried to kick us out of country (and our home) with a 10 year ban on applying for re-entry a couple of decades ago, so I imagine it was unpopular in some circles.

But that was in Iowa, not in Illinois or wherever you are talking about.

I'm having difficulty understanding why you are being so insulting and condescending here in this thread, just because I posted some information about Iowa. Can't you make your points about Illinois NAZIS or whatever without condescending insults? Are you always like this?

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

Mar-4

ramseylurker said:

I'm having difficulty understanding why you are being so insulting and condescending here in this thread, just because I posted some information about Iowa.

Your Iowa information is unsatisfactory and appears to be very exaggerated.

And is 60 years earlier than the Red Summer.

ramseylurker

From: ramseylurker

Mar-4

BerrySteph said...

ramseylurker said:

I'm having difficulty understanding why you are being so insulting and condescending here in this thread, just because I posted some information about Iowa.

Your Iowa information is unsatisfactory and appears to be very exaggerated.

Your vague and uninformed opinion regarding the KKK here in Iowa is noted, and will be taken into account in the future when conversing with you. 

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host
BerrySteph said:

Nothing stupid about alleging that people with whom Bush was very friendly were behind 911.

Given that most of the hijackers were Saudi Arabian? No.

But the idea that the US government was complicit?  Yes.

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host
BerrySteph said:

Time-wasters like Adwil demand the same thing be repeated over and over again.

Goss is the worst offender there.

You just repeat the same 3 things over and over with nobody asking at all.

  1. Jews torture kids.
  2. The U.S is responsible for all the genocide that has ever happened throughout all of history
  3. Jonathan Pie is a Russian agent.

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