Coalition of the Confused

Hosted by Jenifer (Zarknorph)

Confused malcontents swilling Chardonnay while awaiting the Zombie Apocalypse.

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Poll 2 - The Death Penalty   General Confusion

Started 6/3/19 by Jenifer (Zarknorph); 7964 views.
Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph) 

Oct-25

The "which one?" was a glib response to "which god?"

Clearly that sailed over your head.

I don't believe any of them exist.  They are an invention of humanity, something to make us feel like someone, somewhere is in charge.  The alternative is that we are the random product of a chaotic and indifferent universe - and that is quite unsettling.  I remember having faith as a child, and I remember the comfort it held.  Losing that faith was more traumatic for me than I was emotionally mature enough to understand at the time. 

For the record, you and I are in agreement with regard to the death penalty.

It is amusing you felt the need to scream at me about it.

The "which one?" was a glib response to "which god?"

Clearly that sailed over your head.

How so? I answered it succinctly. Maybe you're the "short one", here.

I don't believe any of them exist.  

Of course you don't. You're far above the 75% of the world that does. You're "special"!

I remember having faith as a child, and I remember the comfort it held.  Losing that faith was more traumatic for me than I was emotionally mature enough to understand at the time. 

Maybe when you do mature you could take a second look. Remember, without faith one can never know, really know deep in their soul, that anyone in their life ever loved them. There is no "proof" of love just like there is no "proof" of God. Anything anyone has ever said, or done, for you can reasonably have a different explanation than love.

It is amusing you felt the need to scream at me about it.

Do you intentionally not get it, or, are you really as stupid as you sometimes seem? I screamed about the fact that you completely ignored. Human beings are not equipped with the judgement necessary to take a person's life in punishment.

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph) 

Oct-26

Once again, you come out swinging.  Your reply was nothing but toxic loathing.

I was 14 when I lost my faith.  I know you have no interest in the details.

I did not understand that I was grieving, so I could not understand the stages of grief I was going through.

The toughest one was anger.

I felt betrayed, lied to and deceived.  I was insufferable in my contempt for those that had faith.  God was dead for me, so I had to kill God for everyone else.

It took many decades for me to reach acceptance.

Now, while I still question the inanity of the violence done in the name of any deity, I respect that faith plays an important part in many people's lives.

And faith can transcend gods and prophets and manifest itself in the sciences.  I have faith in science.  The difference is, I never assume science has all the answers and is infallible.

In the end, a scientist, a priest, a philosopher and an average person on the street just wants the answers to the same questions:

  • Why are we here?
  • How did this all come to be?
  • What are we supposed to do with this existence?
  • How is it all going to end?

Same questions, just looking for the answers in different places.

Make Dems Cry Again 2020! (bobrazz) said:

I screamed about the fact that you completely ignored. Human beings are not equipped with the judgement necessary to take a person's life in punishment.

Once again.  I agree. Which is why I am opposed to the death penalty.

You'll have to find something else that enrages you about my post this time.

Now, while I still question the inanity of the violence done in the name of any deity, I respect that faith plays an important part in many people's lives.

In today's world there is only one faith doing significant violence in the name of their deity. That vile political ideology of islam. That targets all religions, even different forms of its own.

  • Why are we here?
  • How did this all come to be?
  • What are we supposed to do with this existence?
  • How is it all going to end?

Most of the answers can be found in the Gospels. Even if one does not recognize Jesus Christ as God He was, arguably, mankind's greatest philosopher.

You'll have to find something else that enrages you about my post this time.

Only because you actually addressed my post. OK! Who are you and what have you done with jenifer?

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph) 

Oct-27

Make Dems Cry Again 2020! (bobrazz) said:

Even if one does not recognize Jesus Christ as God He was, arguably, mankind's greatest philosopher.

You really should sit down for this...

I agree.  Jesus does not need to be divine in order for me to agree with his teachings.  In fact, I think it makes his life even more remarkable if he remains the single most influential human to have ever walked the Earth, while being just as human as the rest of us.

Make Dems Cry Again 2020! (bobrazz) said:

Most of the answers can be found in the Gospels.

Not for me.  The birth of the universe, the formation of stars and galaxies, life on other worlds... I need much more meat in my sandwich that "Oh, God did all that in a week, don't worry about the details."

Curiously, they did get the scientific orders pretty right... just a couple of swaps needed...

  1. Light (Big bang)
  2. Sky/Atmosphere (Should be the stars, especially our sun)
  3. Dry land (planets)
  4. Sun/moon/stars (should be our atmosphere)
  5. Birds and sea animals (so water pooling and microbiology forming)
  6. Land animals and humans (evolution - birds should be here)
  7. And rest

I know these pedantic changes sound picky, but I actually have respect for the order.  This has been mused over since 500 BC and was getting fleshed out around the 1500's before getting any serious challenges by Galileo.

The priests were the scholars of the time and the 3 wise men were likely astronomers.  (There is wonderful debate over the star at Jesus' birth being either a supernova or Jupiter in a close orbit).  So I have to acknowledge how much science owes the church, even though they are often at loggerheads.

As for the worst aspects of "faith", I feel religion is to blame for that.  I consider them different entities.  Faith is a personal belief, religion is a code of conduct imposed upon you by others.  That is where violence and intolerance fester.

Make Dems Cry Again 2020! (bobrazz) said:

OK! Who are you and what have you done with jenifer?

This is me, Bob.  It always has been.  We have had civil conversations in the past.

 In fact, I think it makes his life even more remarkable if he remains the single most influential human to have ever walked the Earth, while being just as human as the rest of us.

Think, a moment, on that. "The most influential human to have ever walked the earth" and his only message was to love one's fellow man, unconditionally, and show your love for God in doing so. Looks like we're not such bad folks after all.

 I need much more meat in my sandwich that "Oh, God did all that in a week, don't worry about the details."

Well, first of course, why? What possible difference can that knowledge make in your life? Second, a week? Just how long was "a week" before the earth started rotating around the sun, before the earth was created. Our galaxy, however, takes about 250 million years to fully rotate. How long was a week before it was created?

So I have to acknowledge how much science owes the church, even though they are often at loggerheads.

Not so much "the church" but the flawed men who ran the church at times.

Faith is a personal belief, religion is a code of conduct imposed upon you by others.  That is where violence and intolerance fester.

Oh, the horror of having Jesus Christ's "code of conduct imposed upon you by others". Let's start with the freedom to choose to believe, or not. After the reformation the Christian church pretty much stopped all that violence and most of that intolerance nonsense. Wonder if the muslim church will ever experience its reformation.

evolution - birds should be here

Nope. Birds are thought to have directly evolved from dinosaurs called theropods.

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph) 

Nov-2

Make Dems Cry Again 2020! (bobrazz) said:

Think, a moment, on that. "The most influential human to have ever walked the earth" and his only message was to love one's fellow man, unconditionally, and show your love for God in doing so. Looks like we're not such bad folks after all.

It would be wonderful if more people took that message to heart.  Sadly his message is often twisted into an excuse to hate.

Either way, I'm happy to celebrate his birthday every year.  And Saint Nicholas was a great guy (before Coca Cola ruined his image).

Make Dems Cry Again 2020! (bobrazz) said:

Well, first of course, why? What possible difference can that knowledge make in your life?

Knowledge is necessary for humanity to evolve.  If we just accepted that God made everything and everything is just the way it should be, we'd still be living in caves.

This is one of the many contradictions of religion (not faith) that bother me.  God gave us intelligence and curiosity - so why would we not use it to better our understanding of the world?  God gave us sexuality, but we should be ashamed of it?  God gave us free will, but if we don't obey a particular set of rules we'll burn forever in eternal hellfire...

Make Dems Cry Again 2020! (bobrazz) said:

Not so much "the church" but the flawed men who ran the church at times.

True.  That whole Galileo incident is a PR nightmare.

Make Dems Cry Again 2020! (bobrazz) said:

Oh, the horror of having Jesus Christ's "code of conduct imposed upon you by others".

As stated before, it is not his code of conduct.  It is the rules of fallible humans made in his name.

Make Dems Cry Again 2020! (bobrazz) said:

After the reformation the Christian church pretty much stopped all that violence and most of that intolerance nonsense.

Pretty much... the last abortionist murder was 2015, mostly they're just still vandalised or set on fire. 

Make Dems Cry Again 2020! (bobrazz) said:

Wonder if the muslim church will ever experience its reformation.

It's a much younger religion.  I guess it has to get through its "Dark Ages".

Make Dems Cry Again 2020! (bobrazz) said:

Nope. Birds are thought to have directly evolved from dinosaurs called theropods.

Nope.  Dinosaurs don't exist in creationism.  The bones were placed there to test your faith.

It would be wonderful if more people took that message to heart.  Sadly his message is often twisted into an excuse to hate.

How often, and, to what significant harm? I submit that mankind, overall, is doing about as well as any flawed species could be expected to. And, generation to generation, we get better.

Either way, I'm happy to celebrate his birthday every year.  And Saint Nicholas was a great guy (before Coca Cola ruined his image).

You didn't know that it's his stock holdings in coca cola that fund all those presents for the kids?

Knowledge is necessary for humanity to evolve.  If we just accepted that God made everything and everything is just the way it should be, we'd still be living in caves.

Why? No, really, how does that compute for you? God made the heavens and the earth. Virtually no one says "everything is just the way it should be"! God also made us curious, and inventive. All comes from God. However, he also asks that we utilize those gifts to benefit all humankind. Take atomic weapons. His gifts allowed mankind to invent that terrible weapon. A horrible weapon that has probably saved more lives around the world in the past half century than have been lost in all the wars since WWI. Because it made all out war, impossible. As the computer said; "The only way to win is, not to play".

 God gave us intelligence and curiosity - so why would we not use it to better our understanding of the world? 

But, "we" do! "We" meaning mankind. You keep looking for perfection in an imperfect creature, why? Look at my country. In 1950 blacks had to use the green book to travel in dozens of states because few lodgings would accept them. They had virtually no rights. Yet, in less than two generations all of that hatred turned into acceptance for the vast majority of Americans. We now have a far better understanding of people, and of the fact that skin color doesn't denote a whit of difference.

God gave us sexuality, but we should be ashamed of it?

Who tells us we should be "ashamed of it"? The Christian religion simply tells us to keep it sacred in our lives. Because, it's final purpose is not the physical pleasure. Physical pleasure is an incentive to complete it's final purpose. Which is to create life, where there was none.

God gave us free will, but if we don't obey a particular set of rules we'll burn forever in eternal hellfire...

And, guess what? That ONLY affects people that believe it. You surely don't believe it, so, where's your beef?

True.  That whole Galileo incident is a PR nightmare.

It's also a blessing. Since there is one rule of humankind that is virtually never violated. We learn more from our mistakes than from our successes.

Pretty much... the last abortionist murder was 2015, mostly they're just still vandalised or set on fire. 

Which CHURCH participated in any of that? The Christian church simply says, and rightly so, that human life is precious and should not be taken without just cause. Flawed men take that as excuse for violence. Should the church change its position and say "all human life is precious and should be protected, unless, a woman, who freely participated in the creation of human life, thinks that her life might become inconvenient to do so"?

Nope.  Dinosaurs don't exist in creationism.  The bones were placed there to test your faith.

Sigh, and there you go again. Using the minute minority to demean the vast majority. You seem to take your pleasures outside of the rules of civility.

 

 

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph) 

Nov-4

I don't have the time today to answer this.  Sadly it was the last post on the unread list.

Poke me if I forget.

1776 (MRCROSSROADS)

From: 1776 (MRCROSSROADS) 

Nov-5

I voted "Completely in Favour for all assaults, rapes, murders, drug traffickers ..."

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