Coalition of the Confused

Hosted by Jenifer (Zarknorph)

Confused malcontents swilling Chardonnay while awaiting the Zombie Apocalypse.

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US News - General   America - all of it

Started 7/17/19 by Jenifer (Zarknorph); 24179 views.
BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

May-15

katiek2 said:

No, I am not.  There is, IMHO, no doubt that the climate is changing, and that the emergence of the industrial age has helped it along.  

I assumed you were a climate denier - but I did a quick check and can't see anything like that from you.

katiek2 said:

It doesn't matter what we do to mitigate the change, the climate WILL change.  It does so on a cyclical basis.  If we discontinue completely use of all fossil fuels, the climate will still change.  Maybe not as fast as it is now, but it will continue to change.

Now you're waffling and letting yourself down and parroting the stupidity of Trump and others.

katiek2 said:

I just don't believe that going back to an agrarian society is the answer.  

Nobody thinks that - what we need to do - as a matter of great urgency - is to make our energy from sustainables.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

May-15

katiek2 said:

I'd like to know what he should have done based on the "facts" he was given by his scientific advisors.  

He should have listened to his experts, he reached out to China and sent teams to observe and learn and urgently set about re-building stocks of PPE.

katiek2 said:

What would Obama have done?  

Obama struggled to reform your appalling health system - he got very important work done, even past his political opponents, but was unable to do so much else.

katiek2 said:

What would Clinton or Bush or any other country leader have done?  There are a lot of people slinging arrows because they don't like the person sitting in the office - but they don't have any answers to what should have been done.

The only nation to have betrayed its people as badly as the US is the UK governed by mini-Trump.

Where, as a direct result of Brexit, he was totally neglectful, missing the first 5 of the emergency meetings (what we call COBRA).

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)

May-16

katiek2 said:

I just don't believe that going back to an agrarian society is the answer.

Nobody, other than fear mongers, are saying that we should.

Agrarian societies did not have solar farms or nuclear power plants.

katiek2 said:

It doesn't matter what we do to mitigate the change, the climate WILL change.

Yet we have just proven that a month of humanity being sent to their room makes a significant change to the CO2 levels and air pollution responsible for global warming.  We have proven that what we do matters, and we can make a change if we want to.

katiek2 said:

If we discontinue completely use of all fossil fuels, the climate will still change. Maybe not as fast as it is now, but it will continue to change.

I find the 'well, the problem is too big, why bother?' attitude disheartening.

I have heard several analogies that describe this kind of thinking, these two are my favourite:

  1. You're a Roman senator and the planet is Julius Caesar.  You could take a stand and try to stop it the carnage, but given that everyone else is stabbing him, you might as well drive the knife in too.
  2. You're driving along the road and see a man pinned under a car. You cannot possibly lift it yourself, so why bother helping the ten other people trying to lift it as a team?

The other thing Covid has taught us about a global economic crisis, is that nothing much changes.  I still have a roof over my head and food in my belly.

We also proved that less demand for oil means lower prices.

That's an economic win for the average consumer.

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)

May-16

katiek2 said:

2. What stupid decisions has he made today, or this week, or this past month, based on the information available to him.

He is encouraging states to open, while not looking at the data that shows covid cases are on the rise in the US.

It is VERY important to remove New York from the equation before looking at the country as a whole.

Because NYC has SO much of the national caseload, any changes to that one state effect all 49 others.

In reply toRe: msg 292
Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)

May-16

katiek2

From: katiek2

May-16

Jenifer, I have no problem with anything you said.  My only point is that no matter what we do, Mother Nature will do as she wants.  I do not mean to say don't make the effort, and I am not saying it will not help, but it will certainly not stop the climate from changing.

katiek2

From: katiek2

May-16

He is encouraging states to open that feel they are in a position to open safely.  We have governors telling their states they won't open until a vaccine is ready.  Fauci and others are saying there may not be a vaccine for years.  Trump says we will have one by year end, "at least I hope so"; We have government officials telling parents their kids may not be able to go back to school for years.  The mayor of the city where my son lives has banned walking on the beach, but says it's OK to surf and boogie board.  Tell me, how do you get to the water without walking on the sand.  They are not thinking clearly.  Aside from wanting to be open for fun things, we NEED to open in order to survive.  Kids have to go back to school, parents have to work.  We are in such a deep state of shit right now we won't dig out of it for years.  Pelosi is sitting in her home office scribbling out bills with no input from either the House or the Senate.  The Senate is at work, but the House refuses to come to work.  They're still getting paid by the way.  They have either forgotten what it takes to raise a family and survive in this world, or they have never had to face a week or month or year without a paycheck.  The people they are supposed to represent, and that pay their salaries want to go back to work.  We are adults, we know the risks and are willing to do what is necessary to mitigate them, but we are not willing to sit in our homes any longer staring at the walls.  

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Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)

May-17

That is true.

The climate changes.

It always will.

But we know that humans are making it happen faster.  The sad part is, we just don't care.

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)

May-17

I think this is a real eye-opener for all Americans to examine their governments, from Federal, to state to local and really observe them in a crisis.

But more than that, will the states work together over borders if different rules apply to different states and counties?

November will be a referendum on the overall job performance, however the lead-up is going to be a toxic campaign of blame.

I don't envy you at all.

In reply toRe: msg 297
Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)

May-17

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