Coalition of the Confused

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Crimes of War   World Wide WTF?

Started 10/16/19 by Jenifer (Zarknorph); 63170 views.
BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

10/20/19

bml00 said:

Ask Nick for his assessment of the idiot that should satisfy You more than any words I can find

Nick may accuse me of all sorts of things - but lying will not be one of them. I'm scrupulously good that way.

Even as you're terrible!

adwil

From: adwil

10/20/19

I seem to have read and rebutted this nonsense on at  least two occasions. Your problem, Berry is that when I reference a book, you don't actually read anything. You just look for something that sounds as if it supports your views and then you present a piece of text with sections omitted but set out in such a way as to try and convince the reader that those sentences are actually connected, when they're in different sections of the book.

If you were an academic, you'd get nothing accepted for publication in a peer reviewed journal.

I'm busy for the rest of the day, but will try and revisit this post and your other propaganda nonsense on terrorism, probably tomorrow.

Enjoy your day.

adwil

From: adwil

10/20/19

BerrySteph said:

Nick may accuse me of all sorts of things - but lying will not be one of them. I'm scrupulously good that way.

"Nick may accuse me of all sorts of things - but lying will not be one of them. I'm scrupulously good that way."

No. BM is right. Lying and falsifying is your modus operandi. 

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

10/20/19

adwil said: I seem to have read and rebutted this nonsense on at  least two occasions. ... I'm busy for the rest of the day, but will try and revisit this post and your other propaganda nonsense on terrorism, probably tomorrow.

Adwil is trying to drag this out, time-waste and poison the ambience.

He's running away from any actual substance - after all, I've only invited him to do this:

1) Show us any "bona fide historians" defending Kurt Becher.

2) Show us any hasbarists who defend Kurt Becher.

3) Admit there is absolutely nobody (else) in the world who has ever made this defense.

4) Tell us what's in the book that he recommended "Self-financing Genocide: The Gold Train, the Becher Case and the Wealth of Hungarian Jews" 2004 

5) Or in "The Gold Train: The Destruction of the Jews and the Looting of Hungary" 2002 by Ronald Zweig, another book he recommended.

Adwil knows he can do none of that - and has never done it, despite what he claims.

bml00

From: bml00

10/20/19

ADWIL has Berry  on the ropes enjoy it as the liar Berry will move the goal post each post .

BM

adwil

From: adwil

10/21/19

"1) Show us any "bona fide historians" defending Kurt Becher. You don't really have any understanding of what historians actually do. Why should any modern historian accuse or defend anyone. Their job is to present the facts as best they can so the reader is in a position to make a judgement. 

2) Show us any hasbarists who defend Kurt Becher. " Why on earth should I believe what I read from a polemicist?

3) Admit there is absolutely nobody (else) in the world who has ever made this defense."

What a silly thing to say. How would I know? There's very little on the subject of Kurt Becher, probably because he was never 'central or 'important. He's just a minor player in the Eichmann led Hungarian Holocaust best known for co-operating with the Jewish Aid  and Rescue group, the Vaada and helping Kastner save Jewish lives at great personal risk.

You're still suffering from 'Becher on the brain'.  Your basic problem is that Becher was not found guilty of any war crime after WW2. He was accused 20 or 30 years later in West Germany on two occasions, (with others) but each time the case collapsed because of lack of evidence.

4) Tell us what's in the book that he recommended "Self-financing Genocide: The Gold Train, the Becher Case and the Wealth of Hungarian Jews" 2004 

5) Or in "The Gold Train: The Destruction of the Jews and the Looting of Hungary" 

I've read both books. You haven't. You just search for evidence that supports your prejudices. I suggest you refresh your memory of the 'Gold Train' by reading the summary in  "Rosner, et al. v. United States of America, Docket No. 01-1859-CIV-SEITZ."

To help you, here is the relevant bit. "The Hungarian Gold Train was a train of approximately 24 freight cars that contained personal property which was taken, seized, confiscated or stolen by the Hungarian government from Hungarian Jews. 

http://www.hungariangoldtrain.org/index_en.php

OK? Got that? Becher isn't mentioned because he had nothing at all to do with the Gold Train which was organised by the Hungarian Government. You believe he had, because there is another separate section in the book looking at the Weiss-Mann takeover, that Becher actually did organise.  If you'd read the book, you'd know they were unconnected events. That's how I know you haven't read the book.

OK. Next question.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

10/21/19

adwil said:

"1) Show us any "bona fide historians" defending Kurt Becher. You don't really have any understanding of what historians actually do. Why should any modern historian accuse or defend anyone. 

Everything you've included is deliberately deceptive - or maybe outright false.

Kurt Becher (when he's mentioned, though as a protected friend of Israel, he doesn't get much mention) is condemned by "bona-fide historians".

adwil said:  2) Show us any hasbarists who defend Kurt Becher. " Why on earth should I believe what I read from a polemicist? 

Kurt Becher isn't mentioned by bloggers - unlike you, they know when they're on a loser.

adwil said:  3) Admit there is absolutely nobody (else) in the world who has ever made this defense." What a silly thing to say. How would I know?

Your own postings betray you - you leapt to his defense with a series of angry postings. I'll not spam the Forum with them - but you wished he could sue me among other things.

adwil said:  There's very little on the subject of Kurt Becher, probably because he was never 'central or 'important. He's just a minor player in the Eichmann led Hungarian Holocaust 

Kurt Becher was central to the robbing of the Jews of Hungary. Your own sources say so.

adwil said: ... best known for co-operating with the Jewish Aid  and Rescue group, the Vaada and helping Kastner save Jewish lives at great personal risk. 

You're a complete fraud.

adwil said:  4) Tell us what's in the book ... "Self-financing Genocide: The Gold Train, the Becher Case and the Wealth of Hungarian Jews" 2004  5) Or in "The Gold Train: The Destruction of the Jews and the Looting of Hungary" ...  I suggest you refresh your memory of the 'Gold Train' by reading the summary in  "Rosner, et al. v. United States of America, Docket No. 01-1859-CIV-SEITZ." 

Bizarre argument from you - Becher is named as a very serious villain (though not everything he did is recorded) in the two books you recommended!

To claim he wasn't involved because another document doesn't mention is simply - very bizarre.

adwil said: ... Becher isn't mentioned because he had nothing at all to do with the Gold Train which was organised by the Hungarian Government. You believe he had, because there is another separate section in the book looking at the Weiss-Mann takeover, that Becher actually did organise.  

So you know that Becher was a Jew-robber on an enormous scale. 

adwil said:  OK. Next question.

You've answered my question - Karl Becher's biggest coup was forcing the Jewish owners of the Weiss-Mann works (half of all Hungarian industry???) to sign over all their property in exchange for payments they'd recieve in exile in Portugal. (Very little of what they ever received).

bml00

From: bml00

10/21/19

On the ropes for the umpteenth time ,well done .

Cant wait for the usual squirm wriggle and excuses -

BM

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

10/21/19

Everything Adwil has posted is nonsense.

Kurt Becher is universally condemned as a war-criminal - Israel would have liked him to visit Jerusalem and testify for Kastner - Israel's Attorney General said that if he were to set foot in Israel he would be arrested.

That position is taken as read in both books that Adwil claims to have read (as should be obvious from the title of one of them!).

Adwil cannot find even one blogger, let alone "accredited historian" who even hints otherwise.

He's only found one article that doesn't mention Kurt Becher - his offering it here just proves what an astoundingly weak case he has.

adwil

From: adwil

10/21/19

BerrySteph said:

So you know that Becher was a Jew-robber on an enormous scale. 

No, I don't know that. 

The Weiss-Manfred affair didn't benefit Becher. He had orders to arrange a takeover of the factories behind the back of the Hungarian Government and negotiated with the family, offering to arrange for most of the Jewish part of the family to seek asylum in Portugal or Switzerland and pay over a substantial amount of money. He kept his word and had most of the family smuggled out to safe countries along with the Hungarian officials who had facilitated the deal because it was thought that the Hungarian Government would retaliate against them. The new trustees (the SS) failed to pay over all the cash that had been promised for their 26 year lease. Becher was hardly in a position to argue months after with senior officers.  

You can find further information below from the account of the Hungarian legal counsel who was deeply involved in the negotiations with Becher.  This is a primary source.

http://epa.oszk.hu/01400/01462/00012/pdf/023-034.pdf

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