Coalition of the Confused

Hosted by Jenifer (Zarknorph)

Confused malcontents swilling Chardonnay while awaiting the Zombie Apocalypse.

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Analysing Terrorism   General Confusion

Started 7/23/18 by Jenifer (Zarknorph); 6589 views.

From: RGoss99


Two interesting posts.

The problema is that "terrorism" as commonly used by both the ignorant and those who should know better, boils down to any act that causes terror.

This is false, terror is terror.

An "-ism" is a belief, and an "-ist" is one who acts on that belief.

So terrorism is a belief, or the act of a terrorist, which both causes terror, and carries with it a message, to affect the behavior of those who are victims, or afraid of such.

Here is an example labeled as terroristic by someone on the net, addressed to me because my community is 10% Muslim.

"Young muslim´s car jumps curb and people are injured" Act of terror, possibility, but because of anti Islamic propaganda, many jump to that confusión. Adding other bits of ignorance to

justify their prejudice. One example, Muslims are poor, don´t own cars, so this guy must be supported by some terrorist cell.

Fact, yes Muslims are poor, but if you know Young Muslims, their financial priorities are quite different from what one might expect. 1. a lot of their earnings go to support families in their home country. As a result many who come here are single men, who to sabe money share living space, and to get to work on Schedule, go in togather to share a car.

Fact. The Muslim in his early 20s, had just gotten his license and Access to a car a week ahead of of the event. Unlike the non Muslim population, as a kid he had Little opportunity to model his driving skills on his parents.

As with all traffic accidents, the pólice investigated and charged him with unsafe driving, because he lost control of his car. No evidence that he did it on purpose, or that he aimed at harming anyone.

E.g. the propaganda and prejudice declared the kid guilty without any facts to support it besides Young Muslim. (see answer to next post related).


From: RGoss99


Basicly you answered your own question. The "so many" itself is an unstatisticly vague assumption based on media coverage. Terrorism is sort of thefruit of the month, with Islam the default, which the stats don´t figure. By Count the majority of terrorist actions in the U.S. were committed by native born White Americans with Christian backgrounds, some motivated by a faulty interpretation of Christianity, just as 9-11, Barcelona, etc. actions are neither supported by the Koran, nor the major of Islamic religious and political leaders.

Further comments.

While not denying the criminality, and wrongness of their actions, it depends on where one stands. Kurds, IRA, Basques, Palestinian, and some other terririst activities are motivated by what are essentially freedom movements against foreign forces that are interfering with their right of self detrmination. Not much different then the Free French fighting the Germans in France after it had been over run. At the time, in most cases, these are considered heros to their own people, labled terrorists by the outsiders. The problema is if the struggle goes on for too long, or the solution is not complete or perverted, terrorism becomes a way of life, so it is very different to get the terrorists, romantic heros to their own people to stand down.

Another factor is that some terrorist groups are encouraged by outside forces for reasons, of their own, then once in the field, and after they discover the motives of their supporters, they turn on them.

Example the U.S. supported terrorism by Afghanis and AQ against the Russians. The U.S. supported corrupt governments in Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama, Viet Nam, Iraq, Iran, and is currently supporting a corrupt government in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan--not because we love them and want to help them but because we have something personal to gain from this support.

Di (amina046)

From: Di (amina046)


You are correct. The young Algerians whom Bin Laden hired on behest of the CIA, to fight in Afghanistan against the USSR, were dropped like hot potatoes as soon as th Russians left. All they knew and had learned was fighting, no pay, so the became mercenaries an terrorists in their own country, having nowhere else to go.

Jenifer (Zarknorph)

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)


Great post, as usual.

As for "outside influences" I think ISIS take credit for a whole stack of attacks that had nothing to do with them.

They took credit for the Orlando gay nightclub shooting, which - it turned out - was committed by a sexually conflicted man.

In reply toRe: msg 17
Jenifer (Zarknorph)

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)


Deradicalising and Deprogramming

With a neatly organised box of pencils, an eight-year-old girl sits at her school desk, carefully colouring in pictures of animals.

Smiling and chatting to her classmates as she draws, there's no indication of her dream to one day become a suicide bomber.

In May, her mother and father sat her on their motorbike before riding to the Surabaya Police Headquarters and blowing themselves up.

"Ayu" (not her real name) survived the blast and now attends a secret school for the children of Indonesian terrorism.

Ayu survived her parents suicide-bomb attack on a police headquarters in Surabaya, Java, Indonesia.

"[Ayu] is happy now. She's a smart kid," her social worker Sri Musfiah said.

"She joins in a lot of the activities, she has many friends and she greets our staff whenever she sees them."

That's a dramatic change from when Ayu first arrived at the school, nursing a broken arm from the bombing and harbouring radical aspirations instilled by her late parents.

On the day they died, they gave no hint of the deed they were plotting, telling Ayu they were all going for a ride to deliver some coconut rice.

Ayu doesn't yet understand her parents intended to kill her as well.

In fact, she thought her dad saved her from the blast.

"When it happened she felt that she was pushed by her father. That's why she was thrown off the bike," Sri said.


In reply toRe: msg 18
Jenifer (Zarknorph)

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)


Secret school to deradicalise students

Ayu is one of 11 children undergoing deradicalisation at the school.

One of her classmates, a seven-year-old boy, lost his father in a shoot-out with counter-terrorism police.

Three other students became orphans when a bomb their father was building accidentally detonated in their Surabaya apartment, the same day the city's police HQ was targeted.

In another classroom, a 16-year-old bomb-maker and a wannabe suicide bomber, also 16, were mixed in with street brawlers, thieves and child prostitutes.

The radical children were considered victims at the school. Their identities were kept secret, even from their classmates.

"They would be seen by the other children as just a fellow problem child," head of the facility Neneng Haryani said.

"This is to ensure their safety … these kids should grow like any other kids, no different."

'The most important thing is building trust'

The location of the school was a secret. Several undercover guards patrol its boundaries, with dozens more on hand should an incident occur.

So far 102 children considered radical have come through the school. Most of them have now returned to their communities, having undergone rehabilitation.

"The most important thing here is the process of building trust with them," Neneng said.

"With this trust, they start to open up, pouring their hearts out and revealing their problems to the social workers."

Once trust was established, the children were encouraged to listen to music, play games and make friends, activities that were often denied to them by their families.

"We teach them facts about Indonesia, that it consists of many tribes, many religions … [and that] we have to tolerate others despite their religion. We cannot force our will onto other people," Sri said.

Neneng believes the fact many of the teachers were women was a fortunate coincidence, because the children see them as motherly figures.

"We have to create a lively atmosphere. [Teach them] to love life and that going to heaven doesn't mean you have to kill yourself," she said.

In just two months, the program appears to be working for little Ayu from Surabaya.

"When she was asked [what she wants to be] the first time, she said she wanted to be a martyr," Sri said.

"[Now] she wants to become a teacher."


From: RGoss99


That is the problema when pop sulture refers to "rag heads" and "camel jockies" there is an obvious solution, simply kill all Muslims. It worked for Hitlar, shy not for racist Americans.

The temptation to say the equivalent of "all X´s are y´s" is in all of us, over generalization based on ignorance.

Often the application of negative stereotypes, creates the reality were it did not exist formerly.

some time back a club I belonged to invited military from the U.S. VI Fleet here on R&R to attend a competition, and various of us took some of them to lunch. I had 4, one of whom was a Black guy from New York. Our Word "ghetto" has no racial connotations as it simply means neighborhood, so we have rich ghettos and por ghettos, I figured Americans visiting might like to see some of the culture first hand. We are an outside culture, and the poorer ghettos, tend to have more Street life then the richer ones, so I took them to lunch at a restaurent where the "natives" (as opposed to tourists) eat. This ghetto is racially mixed. The Black New Yorker commented to me that the Blacks here are different. Kidding, I (in non PC mode) said do you mean all Blacks are alike? This made him pause. Our Blacks come from different cultures then Americans, no history of slavery, civil rights struggle, not victims of the same prejudices, so why would they seem like American Blacks. In many cases of American, Blacks, gays, women, or other minorities, it is the American majority who have provided the temlate for them to act black gay or like women. Acceptance of difference in others is the first step towards world and community peace. I am often surprised here about how my programmed stereotypes are being challenged. Last night I was at a dinner concert in the Street. The cook, a Muslim (cooks pork but does not eat it) whom I have known since she was 11, now married with two kids. Came up behind me, put a hand on my shoulder, knowing my habits, suggested I try a different desert. I have never touched the hand of an adult Muslim woman, but regularly shake hands with Muslim males I know. Because of what I know of their stereotypes, I am unlikely to put my hand on this woman´s shoulder. At the same time felt honored that she was secure enough as a person, to put her hand on my shoulder.

Jenifer (Zarknorph)

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)


This is an excellent point about the history of a race, religion or culture within the country.

My country is a baby by comparison, but we have a terrible track record with Aboriginal human rights.

I love how active you are in your community!

If I ever make it to Spain, I'm claiming your couch and your tour guide services!


From: RGoss99


Welcome, but please note that Spain is a state, not a culture or nation, just one of three nations - Galegos, Basques, Catalans,

Catalan culture is quite different not just in language and customs - no flamenco, no bull fights, no deportion of Muslims and Jews.

This is the back strory behind the present Catalán issue The Spanish of Spain tend toward monarchy, fascism, racism, and the

superstitious side of Catholocism. Our culture is more casual, live and let live, and whatever Works trumps some people´s idea of law and order.


From: BerrySteph


Jenifer (Zarknorph) said:

Personally I draw the line at deliberately targeting innocent civilians.

Even though targeting innocent civilians is established Israeli policy, more than any other regime on earth ever?

And Israel's foreign policy objectives (burn everywhere, basically) are backed by us, we're forcing ourselves along the same route?