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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 279281 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

17-Aug

Red7272 said:

That you don't understand insurgent tactics I find unsurprising.

LOL.  You mean like the tactic of shoot, then run away, in order to stay alive?

Red7272 said:

As for the practicality of hitting them with mortar fire there are a few billion mortar rounds and a hundred years of war that would disagree with you.

ROFL.  In all that 100 years, can you cite even one documented instance of a mortarman targeting one specific enemy combatant, firing only TWO rounds and intentionally hitting him while he was running?

The first 10 seconds of the following video shows a 60mm mortar being fired at a stationary target, and the time of flight is a whopping 8 seconds.  Good luck hitting a running man with only two shots.

https://youtu.be/yi1SkYzCql8

  • Edited 17 August 2021 11:44  by  stancrist
roguetechie

From: roguetechie

17-Aug

Oh man 8 seconds is brutal. Even with a pretty large blast radius If you're trying to hit a maneuvering individual it group you've somehow got to predict about where you think he'll be in 8 second not where he is.

People can move quite a ways in that time.

stancrist

From: stancrist

17-Aug

Yeah, sometimes time of flight matters very much.  relaxed

smg762

From: smg762

17-Aug

How does the unloaded ngsw weight compare to a M27....do all m27 have heavy barrel.  Strikes me that a 20rnd stripper clip would save weight...308 mags weigh a ton

And surely a 13. Barrel wouldnt be very pointable or intuitive for 600m

  • Edited 17 August 2021 13:57  by  smg762
stancrist

From: stancrist

17-Aug

smg762 said:

 Strikes me that a 20rnd stripper clip would save weight...

First, I doubt that 20-rd stripper clips are feasible.  The biggest I've seen for NGSW-size cartridges is 10-rd.

Second, if your idea is to get rid of magazines and modify NGSW rifles for top loading, stripper clips are not the way to go.

A much better option is the en bloc clip, like that used to load the M1 Garand.

But, en bloc or stripper, 10-rd or 20-rd, it does not matter.  There is not a snowball's chance in Hell that the military would ditch magazines and return to clip loading.

  • Edited 17 August 2021 16:51  by  stancrist
Red7272

From: Red7272

17-Aug

stancrist said:

ROFL.  In all that 100 years, can you cite even one documented instance of a mortarman targeting one specific enemy combatant, firing only TWO rounds and intentionally hitting him while he was running?

You do know mortar bombs detonate so you don't actually have to hit them with it?  And are we talking Olympic sprinters or something because 8 seconds is not a long time over a non running track carrying various things for your average person. And lets not ignore them lethal radius of the 81 mm mortar bomb being 30ish metres. So our mythical runner might have gone 50 metres and that is also the blast radius of the bomb. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

18-Aug

Red7272 said:

You do know mortar bombs detonate so you don't actually have to hit them with it? 

Wait, what?  Are you saying that mortar rounds are explosive???  Gosh, and here I've been thinking they are solid projectiles, like big bullets with fins.

Red7272 said:

And are we talking Olympic sprinters or something because 8 seconds is not a long time over a non running track carrying various things for your average person.

True, but in case you didn't notice, that 8 seconds was for a mortar firing at rather short range.  As range increases, so will time of flight.  Here's an instance where ToF is nearly double (14 seconds):  https://youtu.be/TfzyFvZzIH0?t=45

Red7272 said:

And lets not ignore them lethal radius of the 81 mm mortar bomb being 30ish metres. So our mythical runner might have gone 50 metres and that is also the blast radius of the bomb.

81mm mortars, you say?

Apparently you know little about 81mm mortar operation.

Unless we're talking about an 81mm mortar in a fixed position on a firebase, you first have to assemble the barrel, bipod, and baseplate before you can even think about shooting at that insurgent who took a few potshots at you.  That process will take you well over a minute.  https://youtu.be/Rcz5unaXwvQ?t=127  2:07-3:17

Then there's the  matter of aiming.  You can't aim an 81mm mortar like a rifle or grenade launcher.  It's much more complex, and involves more than one man.  Add another minute to your engagement time:  https://youtu.be/cLtgggPulu8?t=29  0:29-1:29

By the time you finally get to fire, the insurgent will be relaxing at home...  sunglasses

Red7272

From: Red7272

18-Aug

stancrist said:

you first have to assemble the barrel, bipod, and baseplate before you can even think about shooting at that insurgent who took a few potshots at you.  That process will take you well over a minute.  https://youtu.be/Rcz5unaXwvQ?t=127  2:07-3:17

So your patrol is carrying an 81 mm mortar now? Aren't they already overloaded?  Wouldn't you leave it in a fire base to shoot in support?

stancrist

From: stancrist

18-Aug

Red7272 said:

So your patrol is carrying an 81 mm mortar now? Aren't they already overloaded?

Ever hear of a vehicle patrol?  An MRAP can handle the load.

Red7272 said:

Wouldn't you leave it in a fire base to shoot in support?

Apparently this unit decided they would rather have a mortar with them:  https://youtu.be/TfzyFvZzIH0?t=15

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

18-Aug

Where is your fire base that’s within 5650m of the insurgents that are 1000m from your patrol?

Why are you patrolling there?

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