Hosted by gatnerd
This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.
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14-Dec
Apsyda said:The point of particular note here, imo is the ammunition belt. Showing ostensibly the standard issue 6.8NGSW cartridge. The EPR bullet design is clear and expected. But the use of what appears to be an entirely steel case is very interesting.
Perhaps it turned out that SIG's multipart case design was too complex for mass military manufacture.
It may be that the multi-part case proved too complex for mass production, but I would note that the T-Worx post does not say the rounds are the "standard issue" cartridge.
Another possible explanation for what appears to be steel cases is that they are dummy cartridges used for display at public exhibitions like AUSA 2022, instead of live ammo.
14-Dec
P.S. Thank you for posting that photo. I had wondered how the XM157 fire control could be mounted without interfering with opening the top cover.
I see that the additional long rail clamps only to the short segment of rail on the top cover, so that the fire control and upper rail pivot with the cover.
14-Dec
Excellent find!
Heres both images larger:
The cases to me look one-piece, and are black.
Combined with this picture being taken at a display booth or office (where one generally doesn't want a belt fed machinegun with live ammo) I suspect these are polymer dummy cases with real EPR projectiles.
...
In terms of EPR, its good to see they are nice and pointy and streamlined, which seems to my eye to match the 6.8 EPR prototype we had seen earlier.
14-Dec
gatnerd said:The cases to me look one-piece, and are black.
Black? Oh, great. Now I'm going color blind. The cases look gray to me.
gatnerd said:Combined with this picture being taken at a display booth or office (where one generally doesn't want a belt fed machinegun with live ammo) I suspect these are polymer dummy cases with real EPR projectiles.
The T-Worx post said the photo was taken at AUSA 2022, so I agree that they are almost certainly dummy rounds.
However, they do not look like any polymer cases that I've seen. They look to me more like lacquered steel cases.
14-Dec
They could be steel.
That said, they are black, or darkest dark grey. Note the dark grey of the MG links - about as grey as normal steel case x39 ammo - these 6.8 cases are much blacker then the MG links:
The appear to be about as black, maybe slightly lighter, then the black plastic that makes up the top of the ammo pouch underneath them.
If this is some sort of lacquered steel, then it's a new lacquer coating then what we've seen come out of Russia or really anywhere I'm aware of.
It would also just be odd to use steel cases here, as the sort of soft 'cartridge steel' used in Russian style steel case ammo is not appreciably stronger or that much lighter then brass, and would require completely new cartridge tooling then what the US uses (to my knowledge there is no US made steel case ammo).
If it's the high pressure steel like used in the GD prototype cases, that could be very cool. And those externally look to be one piece, unlike the Shell Shock and SIG cases.
15-Dec
gatnerd said:It would also just be odd to use steel cases here, as the sort of soft 'cartridge steel' used in Russian style steel case ammo is not appreciably stronger or that much lighter then brass...
If they are dummy rounds, strength and weight do not matter.
And there is precedent for using steel case dummy cartridges.
17-Dec
The leftmost round has the lacquer chipped away on the edge of the case shoulder. It’s shiny in the shadow and at a different angle to the reflection of the lights on the cases. The cases are not polymer. The exposed metal is silver not brass or white. I’m interpreting it as lacquered steel.
18-Dec
A rather interesting reloading component has showed up; American Reloading often has obscure / military components (for example, the only website I've ever seen offering M80A1 projectiles.)
Now they have .277 Furry / 6.8NGSW cases. Quite expensive at $1 a piece as well; whether thats due to scarcity or due to them being expensive to manufacture, I don't know.
https://americanreloading.com/277-fury/3249-277-fury-sig-primed-hybrid-case-100ct.html
I'm going to email them and ask whether they can weigh one of the cases for us.