stancrist said:

Infantry needs an anti-drone weapon?

I think thats one of the takeaways from the Ukraine war. Certainly need one more then they need a NGSW-R....

As for what that weapon would be, theres drone jammer guns, but that will likely not work on emerging AI / Autonomous drones. A proximity airbust M72 LAW would work on loitering quadcopters, but would be way too slow to deal with a FPV diving suicide drone. 

...

In terms of grenades, we've seen a number of lackluster effect in various vids. I wonder to what extent that is older F1/RGD-5 style hand grenades being meh due to a limited number of fragments, vs frag grenades in general being meh in outdoor use?

Updated NGSW vs M4 graphic - alas had to use a 3d render for the M4, couldn't find one of the M4 w/ current PEQ15 + ACOG by itself.

4.5 pounds heavier, 10 rounds less - yikes!

renatohm said:

4.5 pounds heavier, 10 rounds less - yikes!

what's that in real money? Also, clearly putting the rifle into rifleman

graylion said...

what's that in real money?

Just over 2kg

renatohm said:

4.5 pounds heavier, 10 rounds less - yikes

Yes it weighs a bit more then a loaded M4+ACOG+IR+M203

In fairness to the NGSW, half of that disparity is due to the unusual lightness of the M4A1 compared to other 5.56 rifles.

Weight wise, the Marines current M27+VCOG 1-8X VCOG + IR + Suppressor is likely getting up to NGSW weight. I'll have to run those numbers later. 

But in terms of return to Battle Rifle, a loaded NGSW is 13.24lbs, vs 10.7lbs for a loaded M14. 

stancrist said:

It hardly seems fair to compare the NGSW rifle with its adjustable stock, advanced optic, and suppressor, to the old M14 with its fixed stock, iron sights, and no suppressor

It is and it isn't.

In the sense that you mention, it's obviously unfair as NGSW does indeed have a lot more stuff.

However in terms of evaluating the wisdom and future success / issues for NGSW, I think the comparison with the M14 / past battle rifles is instructive.

Namely, the M14 (and later the Battle Rifle in general) fell out of favor due to the weapon and ammunition being deemed excessively heavy, relatively low capacity vs enemy weapons, and harsh recoiling. And that was when the weapons were ~10.7lbs loaded. 

Now we have a gun thats 13.24lbs loaded, with loaded mags of identical weight/size/capacity to the M14....

To me that should ring alarm bells. 

Concur.

gatnerd said:

Now we have a gun thats 13.24lbs loaded, with loaded mags of identical weight/size/capacity to the M14.... To me that should ring alarm bells. 

When the French army put a 1.8 kg day / IR sight on a FAMAS to make a 6.6 kg IW (14.5 lbs), the troop acceptance was low...