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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 85134 views.
In reply toRe: msg 737
autogun

From: autogun

15-Apr

General Dynamics seem to have dropped out of NGSW, passing their contender over to "LoneStar Future Weapons".  Not a good sign?

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

16-Apr

Tony, I cannot imagine other explanations rather than a withdrawal of GD. If they have meaningful opportunities for success in NGSW, they wouldn't do such a thing.

Do you think that SIG has any serious chance against textron's CT entry?

I would dare to affirm that now NGSW just need to decide if Textron is enough mature or not

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

16-Apr

GD hasn't withdrawn at all.

Lonestar was essentially ADDED to the GD / True Velocity team!

Some of you may have recently seen that true velocity showed their 6.8 ammo being tested In a knights AMG this January. 

What we DO KNOW is that the NGSW program is very heavily interested in having belt fed weapons also chambered in the 6.8 round they wind up choosing.

This has been a weakness of the GD submissions all along and bringing in lonestar to handle POST DEVELOPMENT means that they will be responsible for helping to manufacture and evolve the existing GD TV submissions as well as bulking out their lineup.

I don't know how anyone could read that press release and decide that it really means GD has dropped out of the competition... I just genuinely can't comprehend how that would be the message someone took from this.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

16-Apr

You never know, it's not impossible that at some point we will see sig's belt fed chambered in 6.8 true velocity...

Their carbine otoh is almost for sure out of the running completely though since the current phase of the competition assigns a very severe penalty for muzzle velocities under 3030 fps which the sig carbine and ammunition combination does not meet!

There's probably a good chance that even the far better TV ammunition would have a hard time in the sig carbine.

As far as sig's ammunition submission, it's very safe to say that it's out of the running because it flat doesn't meet any of the key requirements.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

16-Apr

any link of testing TV in a LAMG?

A possible problem of CT cartridges is that all the new designs would have to start from zero and paying the tradeoffs of a push-thru design. As we know, one of them is that it seems to be impossible to implement a constant recoil design since the longitudinal space is enough big already

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

17-Apr

So here's the knights AMG chambered in 6.8 TV.

Now onto your statement about CT rounds.

When it comes to CT weapons, they apparently have very little moving mass in their operating systems which means that doing a constant recoil style setup isn't going to do nearly as much as the new smuzzle combination suppressor and muzzle brakes which are efficient enough to tame the worst of the recoil impulse.

In many ways it's a mistake to directly compare a CT gun operating system to a normal gun's. They're different enough to not be directly comparable and are likely to need their own solutions.

All this said though, recoil isn't the issue (except with the sig guns) what we're really dealing with here is the increased ammunition weight which is unacceptable. (They are not planning to reduce individual ammunition load below 210)

stancrist

From: stancrist

17-Apr

roguetechie said:

...what we're really dealing with here is the increased ammunition weight which is unacceptable. (They are not planning to reduce individual ammunition load below 210)

Even worse than the weight issue is the much greater bulk of the 6.8mm ammo and magazines.

There doesn't look to be nearly enough real estate on a rifleman's vest for ten 20-rd magazines.

EmericD

From: EmericD

17-Apr

roguetechie said:

When it comes to CT weapons, they apparently have very little moving mass in their operating systems

They still have to push a fresh round from the belt / magazine into the chamber, and also have to move the chamber (up/down or rotation). Add the fact that there are probably more friction with the plastic case than with a brass case (the CT case is cylindrical), hence I don't see why the bolt carrier could be ligther (with less energy).

Could you elaborate, please?

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

18-Apr

I wish I could but that's all I've heard. 

I could be wrong here so take my statement for what it's worth.

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