gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

  • 3250
    MEMBERS
  • 184422
    MESSAGES
  • 1
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 194611 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

5-Jul

roguetechie said:

I know it's an article of faith here that "this is what it takes to meet the requirements" and people keep doggedly INSISTING that it at least meets the requirements. (Despite the evidence that it doesn't)

I take no position either for or against.  Also, I do not recall seeing anyone here post evidence that it doesn't meet the armor defeat requirements.

roguetechie said:

I know none of you are ever going to be willing to believe me when I tell you it doesn't meet the requirements though, and that's fine because I have something concrete to show you which should cure you of your disbelief (and or kill your dreams/hope for humanity)

https://youtu.be/Lm0XId4kftg

Here's a t&p video from 2 days ago on the sig spear and with sig reps in the video.

Yeah, I watched that video yesterday.  I guess you didn't notice that I posted it today, two posts above yours?

roguetechie said:

If you go towards the last half of the video I think it is, the sig rep starts talking about how the original goal of the ngsw program was to defeat high end armor to long range. He then pretty flat out says, but it turns out that's not realistically doable.

He then goes into a song and dance with helpful sig infographic promo reel playing behind him talking about how you don't have to PENETRATE the armor to injure or kill the soldier wearing it.

We then get a helpful fun infographic captioned BABT and a narrator voiceover talking about how if you just whack the armor HARD ENOUGH even if the bullet doesn't get through it will hurt or kill.

watch the video. I know it sucks that the dream is dead...

You really need to watch the video again, but this time a helluva lot more carefully.

The SIG rep did not make those comments, and those were not SIG infographics.

The whole BABT spiel was made by the T&P guy, using graphics from the internet.

For instance, this is not from a SIG promo, but from the National Academies Press, 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

5-Jul

Nice field strip video of the Textron CT NGSW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYqEJsMLg_g

taschoene

From: taschoene

5-Jul

Very strange comment by the Textron rep right up front, stating that the chamber translates in order to generate airflow for cooling because "it would be be a bad idea to put a polymer round in a hot barrel."  During LSAT, they reportedly demonstrated that it was nearly impossible to get the barrel and chamber hot enough to cook off a round.  So what is he suggesting here?

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

5-Jul

That's not the SPEAR.

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

5-Jul

I'm not sure why a company that, according to Drummond is "in the lead", would come out and say publicly that they cannot get anywhere close to meeting the axial requirement of the entire program, and in fact can't penetrate the armor at all. There are possible explanations for it, but it's the sort of thing that you could easily get punished for in congressional testimony - so why say it at all? EDIT: I guess it was just Cappy shooting his mouth off. Makes much more sense.

All of this reminds me of "Rifle C" in IC. If you asked any of the competitors, their rifle was Rifle C. So either some were lying, or Rifle C was a quantum superposition of the HK416, SCAR, BEAR, ACR, etc.

I am curious what in the hell is going on with GD's submission. We're seeing a mid stream change of horses (from Beretta to Lone Star Future Weapons, which is basically a subsidiary of True Velocity). So what's up with that? I have no idea. I'm well out of any of these loops. But in my eyes it's not something someone who sees themselves as the "lead competitor" does.

In fact, I'd like to point out that there's no such thing in a competition like this as a "lead competitor". Some do well, others do better, but the Army has strict rules on favoritism before a competition is decided. 

  • Edited 10 July 2021 15:21  by  QuintusO
roguetechie

From: roguetechie

5-Jul

That video is very much sig admitting that they can't actually poke level 4's to anything approaching significant distances.

If you think for one second sig wouldn't have already had that video yanked from the internet if they weren't ok with that being divulged you're outright crazy.

Now all that said, as Quintus points out, it should be downright strange of sig come even that close to tacitly admitting they all but can't meet the headline requirement.

If it weren't for one three word phrase.

Government Furnished Projectile

As Quintus points out, that's not something you'd want to come even that close to admitting publicly before a procurement decision has been made.

This definitely doesn't bode well for the program.

stancrist

From: stancrist

5-Jul

QuintusO said:

I'm not sure why a company that, according to Drummond is "in the lead", would come out and say publicly that they cannot get anywhere close to meeting the axial requirement of the entire program, and in fact can't penetrate the armor at all. There are possible explanations for it, but it's the sort of thing that you could easily get punished for in congressional testimony - so why say it at all?

The SIG rep did not say it.  The T&P guy did.

stancrist

From: stancrist

5-Jul

roguetechie said:

That video is very much sig admitting that they can't actually poke level 4's to anything approaching significant distances.

If you think for one second sig wouldn't have already had that video yanked from the internet if they weren't ok with that being divulged you're outright crazy.

I showed that your claims about the SIG rep were false, so now you change your argument to the irrational belief that SIG would've somehow magically got the video pulled from the internet if they disliked him expressing his personal thoughts on the subject.

I am reminded of the saying, "He has his mind made up, and is not going to let himself be confused by the facts."

Except with you, it's even worse.  When the facts are contrary to your claims, you make up your own "facts".

roguetechie said:

As Quintus points out, that's not something you'd want to come even that close to admitting publicly before a procurement decision has been made.

SIG did not "admit" anything of the sort.  The SIG rep said nothing whatsoever about their ammo's ability to penetrate body armor.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

5-Jul

What a CRAP of a video, intentionally or not. I don't care about guys' faces and hands but about a clean, well-angled shoots of the thing. You have to imagine instead of just look at the thing

Doesn't anybody explain that tacticalrifleman dudes what a damn very close plane is????

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

5-Jul

The shooter said that "it has more energy than 308". 4000J, finally? even more?

TOP