That's a good point; I'm not exactly sure. There are numerous mentions of the laser seeker having a range of 14km. I took that to mean that it can detect a laser from 14km away.

The DASALS seeker is actually 4 seekers, one on each fin. So presumably at least one is pointing towards the ground. And the seeker does not activate until 0.5 seconds after launch.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Precision_Kill_Weapon_System

So I figured that so long as the rocket is pointed in the correct direction of the target, once it gets airborne it should be able to "look down" with one of its wings sensors and pick up the laser and fly towards it.

However I don't know if that is the case.

All four "seekers" view forward (none of them "look down"), probably better to consider them segments of one assembly.

The spread of ground launching the APKWS isn't quite the game-changer its vendors are advertising, though it will place a premium on detecting and destroying designators (as opposed to counter-battery fires). It seems to me that given an adequate laser-warning system, software-only modifications to the APKWS would make it a dandy anti-designator weapon. 

autogun said...

I suppose it would be possible to send a separate illuminator aloft to designate the target, but that requires the added complication of having to operate a UAS in conjunction with the missile system.

I imagine the designator will be with the troops being supported.

ZailC said...

The spread of ground launching the APKWS isn't quite the game-changer its vendors are advertising, though it will place a premium on detecting and destroying designators (as opposed to counter-battery fires). It seems to me that given an adequate laser-warning system, software-only modifications to the APKWS would make it a dandy anti-designator weapon. 

Well the US has been flogging this ground launched rocket package for decades now without getting very far. For use from airborne platforms it obviously will work quite well, but in the ground role a 81 mm or 120 mm mortar would be a better candidate. The rocket will need drogue fins for its minimum range to be much less than its effective range. 

Looking at the burn rate for the 70mm rocket motor:

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2003/gun/hawl.pdf

The APKWS Seeker doesn't activate until 0.5 seconds after launch, at which point the rocket is already traveling 1000fps. 

As such, I imagine the seeker must have a fairly broad 'cone of detection' with some ability to look downward, as any type of upwardly angled launch (as we see in the previous Fletcher design) would place the rocket 300'+ in the air pointing upwards before the seeker activates. 

But, the Fletcher seems to work:

The FLETCHER 70mm rocket launcher system test firing took place late in May 2018 at an undisclosed location in USA at the specific request of an, also undisclosed, group of end users. The aim of the test-firing was to prove the concept of FLETCHER when used as a ground-based weapon system and to demonstrate the capability to a range of interested specialist users from across the globe. The test firing was a huge success, achieving a 100% target hit rate at ranges between 2 km and 5 km.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/eurosatory_2018_official_news_online/successful_test_firing_of_fletcher_70mm_rocket_launcher_announced_at_eurosatory_2018.html

gatnerd said...

The test firing was a huge success, achieving a 100% target hit rate at ranges between 2 km and 5 km.

I suspect that what this tells you is that the test ground was fairly level and uncluttered. It would be interesting to see an analysis of the effective range and hit probability of the system in a variety of circumstances, including moving targets which in average terrain would be appearing and disappearing behind buildings, vegetation, or even sand dunes etc.

Turns out BAE spells out the exact specs:

https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/apkws-laser-guided-rocket

• Wing slot seals protect optics from adjacent firings, sand, and moisture prior to launch to ensure no damage or debris inhibit the seeker from locking onto targets  
• Optics lock onto moving or stationary targets in open or confined areas, supporting a wide variety of missions, and eliminating the possibility of a lost or uncontrolled rocket after launch
• 40-degree instantaneous field of regard enables a broad capture area for the rocket to adjust mid-flight and stay on track to its target

"I suspect that what this tells you is that the test ground was fairly level and uncluttered. It would be interesting to see an analysis of the effective range and hit probability of the system in a variety of circumstances, including moving targets which in average terrain would be appearing and disappearing behind buildings, vegetation, or even sand dunes etc."

Yes, I'm sure that is the case, and that combat will be more challenging.

BAE claims a 93% hit rate from aircraft so far by US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. 

Even a 50% reduction due to ground combat use would put it at 46.5% hit rate, which would be pretty fantastic. There really is no comparably accurate or effective weapon that can be mounted on small, helicopter delivered vehicles that I'm aware of. 

autogun said...

I suspect that what this tells you is that the test ground was fairly level and uncluttered.

This makes a lot of sense, as that describes the parts of the USA where there is sufficient space to test such things while minimizing any collateral damage.  That being said, the National Training Center has lots of mountainous terrain and is very large.  While I've never been there, colleagues of mine modeled it in 3D in a project for the US Army, populating it with various building and vehicle modules, so I've "flown" though it many times, though that was a couple of decades ago.

The mortars would certainly be preferred when available, though time of flight might favor the rockets, especially for moving targets.  I suspect the use case for the rockets is for patrols out beyond heavy mortar range, but anything that can carry the rocket pod should be able to carry a light mortar and its ammo.  A 60mm with guided munitions might do just as well, and would provide similar mobility advantages.  Since the rounds are designated, you're not going to get a true MLRS effect, so the rate of fire isn't going to be an issue.  I'm sure there are still some conditions where the rocket might be preferred, but I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.