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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW evaluation update   Small Arms <20mm

Started 31/7/20 by autogun; 16515 views.
QuintusO

From: QuintusO

9/10/20

I can shoot a Portuguese AR-10 (which is perhaps the .308 with the most recoil) in rapid fire on semiauto so that's not quite the right metric.

The recoil we're seeing in the promo videos is pretty admirable. I wasn't convinced the Textron gun would have good recoil characteristics (it's very easy to "fake" low recoil, and if you don't believe me watch any video of someone manhandling an FAL, like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOxntuXpfdM) until the Tactical Rifleman video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOxntuXpfdM

It's very tricky to get recoil right. Boiling it down to cartridge recoil energy is too simplistic. It depends a lot on the rate of fire and the kinematics and ergonomics of the gun itself. What we see at 10:35 in that video is the gun being shot in what is really not a very good position (on the bench yes, but no forward hold) for full auto, and it does quite well, even without a smuzzle. So I'm encouraged on that front.

My primary concerns right now are rifle system weight, ammunition bulk, and that the Army seems determined to adopt another goddamned belt fed to replace the SAW.
 

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

10/10/20

I think that the only really decissive factor is cartridge technology and form factor. On the one hand, either backwards extraction is going to be maintained or not. On the other hand, there is going to be a limit for pressure growth or other. FInally is the weight saving

Beretta / GD vocalism on bullpup as a solution for achieving muzzle energy without needing a meaningful pressure leap makes me assume that true velocity solution is not optimal for pressure increasing. They conserve backward extraction and the cartridge wastes a little bit of volume both for magazine and for logistics storage

Textron is an all-in solution, the less compromised one. If the main problems are solved for assault rifle, I would assume than the less compromised is a solution, the bigger growth margin it has.

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

10/10/20

poliorcetes said:

I think that the only really decissive factor is cartridge technology and form factor.

I mean that's clearly not true. They can get everything else right, and the program will still be a failure if they've made significant enough errors in the fundamental parameters.

 

poliorcetes said:

FInally is the weight saving

Which is a lie.

poliorcetes said:

Beretta / GD vocalism on bullpup as a solution for achieving muzzle energy without needing a meaningful pressure leap makes me assume that true velocity solution is not optimal for pressure increasing.

It's not, but CT isn't optimal in other ways. For example, cartridge mass.

poliorcetes said:

Textron is an all-in solution, the less compromised one. If the main problems are solved for assault rifle, I would assume than the less compromised is a solution, the bigger growth margin it has.

If the main problems are solved.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

10/10/20

1. How can we know the mass of CT or TV cartridges? Or weight savings?

2. Can TV cartridges admit as much pressure as CT? For instance, moving into magnum territory, can extraction groove resist when it is inserted into plastic walls?

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

10/10/20

1. By modeling them.

2. Probably not, but I'm testing that with FEA right now.

In reply toRe: msg 84
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25/10/20

A new video of the GD and Textron prototypes being tested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SGySgHP2wU

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

25/10/20

I think I saw the SIG AR in there too.

*edit* No, it was the Textron.

Interesting that both the Textron and GDLS AR and carbine were shown being tested, but not the SIG. It could be coincidence, I guess.

autogun

From: autogun

16/1/21

Some info on TFB concerning the SIG NGSW.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

17/1/21

Was just going to post the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlrBEEG__1E

-Recoil looks stiff, but not unmanageable

-6.8 Spear backwards compatible with 7.62

-SIG guy claims to have already received Gov't orders for the rifle / LMG 

-6.8 Case not only higher pressure, but also holds +1gr of powder capacity due to thinner case walls at the base (similar to Shell Shock.)

nincomp

From: nincomp

17/1/21

I am not so sure about this thing.  Did you see what it has done to that fellow's mustache?? :0

Seriously though, I would like more people to shoot it and give their opinions.  It reminds me of the film clips of the M14 that appeared to show that it was easily controllable in full auto fire.   The average soldier did not do so well with it though.

  • Edited 17 January 2021 1:47  by  nincomp
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