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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW evaluation update   Small Arms <20mm

Started 31/7/20 by autogun; 16542 views.
DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

25/10/20

I think I saw the SIG AR in there too.

*edit* No, it was the Textron.

Interesting that both the Textron and GDLS AR and carbine were shown being tested, but not the SIG. It could be coincidence, I guess.

autogun

From: autogun

16/1/21

Some info on TFB concerning the SIG NGSW.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

17/1/21

Was just going to post the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlrBEEG__1E

-Recoil looks stiff, but not unmanageable

-6.8 Spear backwards compatible with 7.62

-SIG guy claims to have already received Gov't orders for the rifle / LMG 

-6.8 Case not only higher pressure, but also holds +1gr of powder capacity due to thinner case walls at the base (similar to Shell Shock.)

nincomp

From: nincomp

17/1/21

I am not so sure about this thing.  Did you see what it has done to that fellow's mustache?? :0

Seriously though, I would like more people to shoot it and give their opinions.  It reminds me of the film clips of the M14 that appeared to show that it was easily controllable in full auto fire.   The average soldier did not do so well with it though.

  • Edited 17 January 2021 1:47  by  nincomp
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

17/1/21

Oh man, that mustache... someones gotta let him know thats not a good look.

In regards to controllability, I assume it will be better then the M14, simply due to having an inline stock (to reduce muzzle climb) and has a suppressor (which reduces recoil by ~33%.)

But it still looks pretty brisk. 

autogun

From: autogun

17/1/21

gatnerd said:

-SIG guy claims to have already received Gov't orders for the rifle / LMG 

Since the Army will be thoroughly testing the guns and ammunition, they must indeed have placed orders for trial quantities.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

17/1/21

https://youtu.be/vlrBEEG__1E?t=622 about growth potential on internal pressure

I would assume that true velocity design is already dead if evaluators stress that metric. They explicitly admit that they chose a bullpup design in order to avoid pressure growth, and indeed case base points towards a lack of meaningful reinforcement in order to cope with pressure growth

The more pressure and thus Vo, the less tungsten need?

autogun

From: autogun

17/1/21

poliorcetes said:

https://youtu.be/vlrBEEG__1E?t=622 about growth potential on internal pressure

I would assume that true velocity design is already dead if evaluators stress that metric. They explicitly admit that they chose a bullpup design in order to avoid pressure growth, and indeed case base points towards a lack of meaningful reinforcement in order to cope with pressure growth

I don't see the logic there. The longer barrel of the bullpup means that it can match the performance of the other contenders at lower pressure. That will always be true: if the military want to ramp up the pressure to achieve even higher performance, the pressure required will always be higher for the short-barrelled guns. So unless the TV round has a maximum pressure limit so much lower than the others that it can't match their performance even with a longer barrel, the advantage still lies with the bullpup.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

17/1/21

Knowing that US military branches are not bullpup-friendly, I count with beretta's design as a compromise, mainly driven by pressure limits of tv design. Possibly the design was created well before NGSW program and thus the energy requisites cannot be achieved otherwise

Now look at SIG design: expensive, complex, but with pressure growth margin because of steel base. Textron's, on the other hand, is going to be extracted forward and thus without extraction groove for extraction nail.

TV design seems to be conventional AND not reinforced for pressure growth

taschoene

From: taschoene

17/1/21

True Velocity has said their 6.8mm case can handle 80,000 psi.  That's in the same ballpark as the SIG hybrid metallic case.  

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