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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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LMAO Germany adopts an AR-15   Small Arms <20mm

Started 14/9/20 by QuintusO; 35233 views.
QuintusO

From: QuintusO

23/9/20

The roller isn't in patent. There are Armalite guns from 1960 with roller cam pins.

It's ultimately unnecessary and adds cost, which is probably what they were thinking at the time (would have been Sullivan and Fremont). However I agree a roller is an improvement. My guns avoid this issue entirely by using an APE rod.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

23/9/20

The APE rod is ideally the best way to go yeah

nincomp

From: nincomp

23/9/20

I apologize in advance but... would an up-scaled 50 BMG variant use a Great Ape rod?

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

23/9/20

There's no reason it couldn't.

Jeff (Jefffar)

From: Jeff (Jefffar)

23/9/20

nincomp said:

I apologize in advance but... would an up-scaled 50 BMG variant use a Great Ape rod?

Are you trying to make a monkey out of us? 

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

24/9/20

Thank you, Nathaniel. What does APE mean?

Thinking about the entire fleet, what I understand is that uppers are intended to resist a huge amount of rounds shooted. Three barrels would be changed during the entire lifecycle of the product, more or less?

Have 416 design implement such a cam replacement? I wasn't aware of it

Thanks again

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

24/9/20

APE is short for antipreengagement and it's a feature of bolts/bolt carriers not a specific component. Anti preengagement features essentially prevent the bolt itself from trying to rotate/unlock up until the point in the firing cycle where it's time to commence the unlocking cycle. 

As an example, the AK has an antipreengagement feature in it's cam track that requires a solid whack to get past and start the bolt rotating. The israeli bullpup uses a system quite similar to the desert eagle pistols to handle this 

The vanilla AR15 doesn't have a whole bunch In the way of antipreengagement features which results in the steel cam pin putting pretty serious sliding force pressure on the inside wall of the upper receiver.

In a bunch of Sig's guns like virtus mcx et Al they've compensated for this by implementing changeable steel raceways in this part of the upper. Caracal/haenel also do a version of this (same designers).

The 416 does not have any version of this implemented though. In vanilla AR15's it's not all that much of a big deal either because, frankly, stripped uppers cost less to replace than the pair of shoes you're probably wearing now.

Ideally though antipreengagement features are like sufficient underslide and extra run-out distance for the bolt carrier in that they can and do improve efficiency and functionality while dirty/at high round counts.

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

24/9/20

The 416 does not have an insert.

Yes, the upper of an AR-15 outlasts the barrel, and is cheap to replace. However, it's even cheaper just to replace a tiny piece of metal, and that piece of metal can be steel instead of aluminum (and therefore last even longer) and it can be replaced without pulling the barrel. If the cam track and the barrel are out of sync, you might need to disassemble the upper to save the barrel and replace the receiver itself. With an insert, you just unscrew the insert and move on with your life. The downsides are added cost and complexity.

Of course, that's if you're using an AR-15 type design with no APE. My designs have APE, so they don't need any surface in the receiver to accomplish this. The bolt group rides in the receiver on rails, with no additional contact. Smooth and reliable, like an AK (or Garand, or AUG, for that matter).

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

24/9/20

This video gives you a good look at how worn out my AR-15 is hahaha:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3-vEiMeYlM

  • Edited 24 September 2020 18:14  by  QuintusO
In reply toRe: msg 42
autogun

From: autogun

25/9/20

More info on the acquisition process (and some doubts about the outcome) from TFB.

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