Really, you hated the AR t charging handle?

I'm left handed when it comes to rifles, and while I admit I at minimum have big latch charging handles on my AR's, and one with an ambi latch, I can still operate a milspec small latch charging handle wrong handed just fine even to clear malfunctions!

And that's before we discuss modern optics, mounting them, and still being able to charge your gun while not having the charging handle dig into your back while your rifle is slung...

Because that's exactly what my AK charging handles do, which are objectively REALLY SUPREMELY CONVENIENT since I shoot lefty and can thus charge my gun with my primary hand still on the pistol grip!

And then there's the forward assist which is again pretty convenient for me because I shoot lefty and it's paired with the famous brunton bump shell deflector which mostly keeps me from getting hit with hot spent brass while not digging into my back, or the backs of right handers while slung.

To me avoiding that discomfort etc while carrying the gun which you'll be doing much more than shooting it is pretty valuable.

Is it valuable enough to justify the inconvenience some people find in the t charging handle?

That's something everyone has to decide for themselves, but for Me even though the t handle is technically even more inconvenient for me I find it to be one of the things I like most.

So as an interesting aside to the whole 3 functions in one thing, there were actually di AR's with a non reciprocating charging handle that did also function as a forward assist etc...

Specifically I'm referring to the ar10a which stoner helped the Dutch develop but never reached production sadly which fixed problems with the AR we're still fighting today!

I've hoped against hope that somebody would eventually redevelop the solution stoner had already figured out 50 years ago but so far no luck.

Interestingly the bren 2 integrated forward assist is very similar to what stoner did with the ar10a integrated forward assist charging handle he developed with the Dutch 

So far this balanced action thingy has about ten thousand rounds of testing through and it looks like something that could eventually find itself even on service rifles as its very simple and best part is its doesn't effect reliability, even if the counterbalancing would somehow gunk up and lockup, it will just continue work minus the balancing function till its cleared.

While i think 5.56 might not really need counterbalancing or gain much (outside the competition circuit),this could well be useful in calibers with more recoil, 6ARC .308  or new .277fury 

gatnerd said:

       stancrist said: "fullfills the function of three seperate controls of the AR15: charging handle, bolt release, forward assist."

Those are desirable characteristics.  However, you don't need the handle to be reciprocating for that to be achieved.

The AUG A1 for examples charging handle is non-reciprocating, but still functions as a bolt release and forward assist. You just press the little button on the CH and it engages the forward assist.

I would submit that the AUG A1 has two controls, not just one.  As on the AR15, the AUG A1 forward assist is a separate control, but it's installed into the charging handle instead of the receiver.

gatnerd said:

Reciprocating has generally fallen out of favor as...the moving charging handle limits where the hand can be placed.

I think that is not a real issue on most rifles with reciprocating bolt handles.

The handle is located where the support hand would not be placed anyway.

Stan, you're one of the only gun guys I know who prefers reciprocating charging handles...

I think to a degree this is a personal preference thing, and being honest I'm kinda surprised you prefer a reciprocating charging handle. 

But hey you like what you like man and I have to say the ak is a fun little machine (that's why I have 3 of them and will be getting one more within the next year or two. A buddy is gonna sell me his early manufacture Kalashnikov USA kr103)

That said, the market appears to heavily disagree with you, the SCAR NRCH being a prime example.

From a gun design and complexity standpoint I also have to say that this "extra features and controls" thing is really an extremely minor concern from a gun design and manufacturing standpoint.

As far as the ice and mud "freezing controls up" thing, proper design and implementation can mitigate most to all of it as seen in the Aug a3 simplification.

To a degree we're at a weird point in history where gun design has basically frozen for several decades and it warps our perception

I'm personally a massive fan of what arm west has done in this regard so I'm excited to see what these people have come up with!

Do keep us informed please, this sounds exciting 

roguetechie said:

Really, you hated the AR t charging handle?

I'm left handed when it comes to rifles, and while I admit I at minimum have big latch charging handles on my AR's, and one with an ambi latch, I can still operate a milspec small latch charging handle wrong handed just fine even to clear malfunctions!

Yes, I detest the AR15 T-handle.  In large part because while trying to extract a case one cold day, my hand slipped off the T-handle and I painfully scraped a knuckle on the forward assist. 

In contrast, I never encountered any difficulties keeping a firm grip on the bolt handle of the M1 Garand, M1 carbine, or M14 rifle, because I could use the palm, not just thumb and finger.

roguetechie said:

And that's before we discuss modern optics, mounting them, and still being able to charge your gun...

I have never used modern optics.  Except for my AUG, all of my rifles had iron sights.

roguetechie said:

...not having the charging handle dig into your back while your rifle is slung...

Being right-handed, I never experienced that problem.

roguetechie said:

Stan, you're one of the only gun guys I know who prefers reciprocating charging handles...

I think to a degree this is a personal preference thing...

Oh, I completely agree that it is personal preference, and due to personal experience. 

In high school ROTC, the first military rifles I shot were the M1 Garand and M1 carbine.

My all-time favorite rifles that I personally owned were an M1 carbine and an M1A rifle.

So I'll happily admit that the civilian side of ar15 development has definitely cleaned up SOME of the less than ideal stuff on the base m16.

And thank God too because now that flat top uppers with picatinny razorbacks going almost all the way back to the charging handle!

Without big latches and ambi charging handles (which also have bigger than base model latches) the flat top upper razorback would be lethal to hands!

When it comes to gun design, charging handle placement is one of the trickiest things to handle and there's no real good answers. Rather you instead get your basic mechanism and chassis down and then try to decide where a charging handle will suck the least to use on your design.

I've run into this in my own experimenting with guns and gun design and watched the one professional gun engineer I know who actually has a design coming to market wrestling with this when he was working on designs!

Where it's going to suck the least can vary wildly depending on your design.

This can be seen in the b&t/Steyr mp9, hk mp7, and etc.

It's ALWAYS going to be a compromise and someone is ALWAYS going to be unhappy with the compromise you made!

That's just the nature of charging handles and their either integrated or separate auxiliary controls...

Let's take the akm for example, sure you've put 3 features into one dead simple fixed charging handle, BUT you've now got to accept a giant gaping opening into the receiver or do the dumb and kinda janky rk63 rk95 partial charging handle path cover which doesn't actually work that well.

You also lose last round bolt hold open or the ability to easily lock the bolt back without janky add ons to the safety which kinda work. And this is not a small thing if you need to clear certain types of malfunctions!

And this comes right back around to the whole compromises situation. No matter what option you pick there's still something that's gonna punch you square in the dick.

AT BEST a good choice of charging handle placement and type lets you only get punched in one or the other nut or just the shaft itself.

No matter what you do you're getting punched in the twig or one of the berries at absolute best.