gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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LMAO Germany adopts an AR-15   Small Arms <20mm

Started 14/9/20 by QuintusO; 41520 views.
In reply toRe: msg 59
tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

27/10/20

Can someone explain how the procedure exactly to file a patents infringement,

Does HK bought the gun and inspect it thoroughly, by measuring each parts dimensions or something like that?

I don't understand much, for examples, the magpul magazine, can i make something similar to it but with some minor tweaking like extra grip pattern or altering the pattern dimensions, etc?

And the OTB feature, which part was it in the Haenel? As far as i know, 416 otb features mention things like buffer tube drainage hole, bcg hole, and specially designed barrel extension. 

Would it be considered a patent infringement if i designed similar concept but with different hole locations and dimensions?

  • Edited 27 October 2020 23:21  by  tidusyuki
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

28/10/20

If i understood correctly Haenel says HK based their claim in regards to IP infringement of their 'over the beach' features on civilian version CR556, but HK is probably just throwing the mud at the wall till something sticks, as i mentioned. http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages?msg=7720.17 

Thes designs are so deeply crossbred that it would be strange if there was not at least an allegation of  IP infringement. In any case, patent rights were never really part of the tender process  and now HK forced the whole thing that will ultimately result in this being applied for all future BW tenders as well.  Issues of IP should not be the job of the government (BW) tenders but manufacturers.

In reply toRe: msg 61
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

4/1/21

Anyone following this in German media  ,bug boys games in action HK got prosecutors to raid Hanael offices , it seems the magazine issue is not important any more. 

https://www.nrwz.de/wirtschaft/sturmgewehr-streit-beweissicherung-bei-haenel/294848

Meanwhile Hanael is of course lobbying politicians to save the deal.

One thing that is a bit funny is that HK claims its gun is was copied to a degree where you can drop in Hanael bolt and bolt carrier into HK416 and it will fire and cycle as if using an original bolt, HK made a video show dissembling a Hanael rifle for parts and comparing them to HK parts

This show will continue in the courts some time Summer 2021

sklavische Nachbau -slavic reproduction is very German term for 1:1 copy

''Beim Patentstreit geht es zunächst um das  Over-the-beach-Patent (OTB). Diese Over-the-beach-Fähigkeit hatte die Bundeswehr in der Sturmgewehr-Ausschreibung zwingend gefordert. Dabei muss eine Waffe nach dem Auftauchen aus dem Wasser innerhalb kürzester Zeit sofort schießen können.

„Wir werfen Haenel vor, dieses gut zehn Jahre alte Patent sowohl beim CR 223 als auch beim MK556 zu verletzen“, so Seliger. Auch der mit dem Video nachgewiesene „sklavische Nachbau“ des HK 416 werde Gegenstand des Verfahrens vor dem Landgericht Düsseldorf sein.''

JPeelen

From: JPeelen

4/1/21

According to somewhat less sensational reporting in Germany, Haenel was not raided. It was visited by the external patent law expert hired by Bundeswehr to form  neutral opinion on the matter. 

Marco Seliger is the spokesperson for H&K. His statements are therefore not neutral. That parts can be exchanged does tell us exactly nothing about the patent situation. For example, a SIG P210 magazine can be used in a Walther P38. Apart from that, exact dimensions of mechanisms are normally not given in a patent document.

Disclosure: Based on what we know today, I think neither the Haenel nor the H&K proposal should be the future Bundeswehr assault rifle.    

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

6/1/21

JPeelen said:

Disclosure: Based on what we know today, I think neither the Haenel nor the H&K proposal should be the future Bundeswehr assault rifle

smg762

From: smg762

6/1/21

On a random note gatnerds,  I saw an old post in the body armour thread (page 7 I think ) where you listed some interesting links to 70s experiments and dispersion. I couldnt Download them.  ( I only have a smartphone,  no PC,  it keeps saying download failed)

would you know another way of accessing that stuff?  

Thanks

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

7/1/21

smg762 said:

On a random note gatnerds,  I saw an old post in the body armour thread (page 7 I think ) where you listed some interesting links to 70s experiments and dispersion. I couldnt Download them.  ( I only have a smartphone,  no PC,  it keeps saying download failed) would you know another way of accessing that stuff?

I have no idea; that thread is so old it would be pain to find it, and most of my posts are sourced at the time of writing, so I'm not sure what would have lead me one way or the other in terms of digging up documentation.

smg762

From: smg762

7/1/21

There was one reference to a guy who had figured out how to make accurate sabots,  the article was on 

http://www.realguns.com/articles/700.htm

I tried it and it asks me to subscribe for a fee

The other one was here

https://apps.dtic.mil/docs/citations/ADB006505

But it doesn't let me download... gives error messages 

I'd really love to be able to access some of that stuff

  • Edited 07 January 2021 14:33  by  smg762
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

8/1/21

Seems Real Guns has gone behind paywall since when I shared it, so thats gone unless you become a member over there.

As for the other document, I downloaded it an re-uploaded it, should hopefully work for you:

https://www.docdroid.net/NCPd1Eg/sabot-article-pdf

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