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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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LMAO Germany adopts an AR-15   Small Arms <20mm

Started 14/9/20 by QuintusO; 31035 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

14/1/21

JPeelen said:

From a European point of view it is the U.S. that, under the pretext of ITAR, is trying to collect as much as proprietary information as possible from its competitors.

For small arms? I wasn't aware that there was much in the way of cutting edge proprietary info in that sphere left these days. 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

14/1/21

tidusyuki said:

Not gonna lie, that RS556 is kind of cool and quite original. Aside from the weight of all that unnecessary mass, i believe it's a capable rifle.

Yeah its a cool design; I certainly love the AUG quick change barrel from an ease of use standpoint.

At the same time, I recognize its a pretty useless feature for the AR15. You gain the ability to quick change barrels, but do to the design, you lose modularity and ergonomics in terms of handguards.

The current trend is long handgaurds that extend to close to the base of the flash hider, and in that regard the RS556 will be forever dated; its a 16" rifle with the handguard space of an 10.5" rifle.

The other disadvantage of course is weight; its the heaviest conventional layout rifle in my rifle chart:

LE6920: 6.29LBS

M4A1 FN: 6.36LBS

S+T BR18 14.5”: 6.39bs

M4A2 416 barrel: 6.5lbs

KAK SR15 Mod 2: 6.55lbs

LWRC IC DI: 6.6lbs

KelTec RDB: 6.7lbs

ARX 100: 6.8LBS

T91 16”: 6.99lbs

ST BR18 20”: 7.05lbs

Thales F90: 7.17lbs

SCAR 16S: 7.25lbs

LWRC IC-A5: 7.3lbs

ACR: 7.3lbs

Arsenal SLR-106: 7.3lbs

K17 Bullpup: 7.4lbs

LMT CQB16: 7.45lbs

F2000 Tactical: 7.47lbs

Thales F90 20”: 7.47lbs

SG 551: 7.48

HK416A5 14.5” - 7.69lbs

HOWA T98: 7.7lbs

HK 433 16”: 7.72LBS

AK-12: 7.72lbs

Aug A3 M1 High Rail: 7.8lbs

HK 416 a5 16” : 7.85lbs

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graylion

From: graylion

14/1/21

If i was looking for an AR15 style rifle, I'd talk to Ian and Karl about licensing WWSD 2020.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

14/1/21

graylion said:

If i was looking for an AR15 style rifle, I'd talk to Ian and Karl about licensing WWSD 2020.

Its a cool concept, but the actual polymer receiver that forms the core of the platform is only a minimal weight savings; I think its like 3.8-4.2oz savings vs a regular receiver with lightweight collapsible stock (BCM etc in the 7oz range.)

The two other aspects of the WWSD - pencil barrel and carbon fiber handguard - are not really suitable for the military. Pencil barrels being more prone to overheating in sustained firefights, and existing CF handuards likely not rigid enough to reliably keep zero with IR lasers. 

graylion

From: graylion

14/1/21

did you watch the issues about the pencil barrel? it keeps zero and they did stress test it with 250 rounds in one go. Oh and did pushups on it, zero maintained.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

14/1/21

Polymer receiver really doesn't bring much of a weight saving, but a carbon fiber handguard can do anything aluminum can at less weight but still would not be my choice due to the cost. Aluminum handguards are the lazy way , some sort of polymer with a stamped heat shield would be my preference as aluminum handguards can and do get hot fast but realistically upper made from Aluminum extrusion with integral handguard is most likely the best option today it also sheds the heat that polymer arms cant do well. You can always add polymer handgrip on them that doesn't get hot

I think WWSD would pretty much be something like SIG MCX , folding stock is just something that is beyond useful for todays mechanised infantry.I seriously doubt Stoner would be clamoring to basic Ar15 configuraton like a tick , which seems to be the norm these days.

Pencil barrels should be doable (AKs mostly have pencil barrels) ,and are just about the only part where you can save weight. One of my business partners is actually developing a CF reinforced barrels for use in both Assault rifles but more surprisingly for MG and autocannon use (mostly for RWSs).

The other area to is save weight on ancillary gear by making an optic with the lasers and possibly integrate light into the forend of the 'powered rail' system . 

graylion

From: graylion

14/1/21

hmm, have you actually looked at it and its weight? It is a lot lighter and the polymer receiver is lighter because design. The pencil barrel has modern heat treatment and holds zero. please look at the full project, not just your preconceived notions.

edit: it weighs 5 lbs naked

  • Edited 14 January 2021 15:51  by  graylion
Msg 7720.81 deleted
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

14/1/21

It sounds like you are replying to gatnerd. 

The weight saving is not as much in the lower receiver as it's in barrel then a bit in the integrated stock and pistol grip, but both are in my opinion obsolete features that would be cool decades ago but not today. I also mentioned pencil barrels work well enough in  AK s so should be workable in Ar as well.

Mustrakrakis

From: Mustrakrakis

14/1/21

graylion said:

If i was looking for an AR15 style rifle, I'd talk to Ian and Karl about licensing WWSD 2020.

I suspect that Germany is looking for a service rifle, not Karl's favorite two gun setup. 

To be completely honest, I'm not entirely sold on that lower receiver for recreational use, never mind for a duty weapon.

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