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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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PDW again   Small Arms <20mm

Started 20/12/20 by DavidPawley; 145314 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

21-Oct

Somebody in the German logistics authority on the B&T payroll?  

JPeelen

From: JPeelen

22-Oct

In my opinion more likely the use of "navalized" Glocks by German special forces under the designation P9 (yes, a confusing designation considering the former use of HK P9 by police forces, among them GSG 9).

stancrist

From: stancrist

22-Oct

JPeelen said:

more likely the use of "navalized" Glocks by German special forces under the designation P9

Yes, that makes sense.  I did not know Glocks are used by any part of German armed forces.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

29-Oct

I have my foxtrot Mike fm15 with 11.5" barrel and it formerly had a folding brace until the ruling news picked up steam.

Now it has a shorty pistol length about 4 inch buffer tube with no adjustable stock compatibility and I've been using it as a cheek pdw.

It's essentially a rattler but $1500 cheaper and in 5.56.

With the right sling setup etc you can conceal them under coats and still outduel an akm at 300 meters with the right ammo selection ...

I guess that makes it a pdw if you squint at it real hard.

I just call it my shorty though 

Personally not a fan of 300 blowout especially since I don't have cans.

stancrist

From: stancrist

29-Oct

roguetechie said:

I have my foxtrot Mike fm15 with 11.5" barrel and it formerly had a folding brace until the ruling news picked up steam.

Have not been keeping up with legal news since I can no longer shoot.  Is ATF ruling that pistol braces are stocks?

roguetechie said:

Personally not a fan of 300 blowout especially since I don't have cans.

Never liked .223 myself.  Longtime .30 caliber mafia, so I would prefer .300 BLK.  Plus, I really like long-ogive bullets.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

30-Oct

Short version is yes ...

Longer version is they're making "registration amnesty" noises that I'm not ok with dealing with, so I've just gotten rid of the brace and installed a picatinny to buffer tube adapter and put a 4" pistol tube with no interface for a stock to mount to.

The extra 4.25 inches doesn't affect my use case since with the cheek shooting technique, which I'm taking to quite well, combined with holosun paralow circle dot and flip to side magnifier I'm still more than capable of center mass shooting to 300 meters even on the move.

I'm gonna be swapping out to a holosun hs510c or hs512c in order to get a bigger window along with a holosun specific magnifier purely so I don't have to get my head optic alignment quite as exactly, but even as is it's extremely serviceable.

I do wish someone made a slightly lower height over bore flip to side but that's just a minor quibble and affects conceal ability to a very minor degree.

I have also went to a sling by the demonstrated concepts cheek shooting guy to slim the gun down and may also be going to a very short linear comp type muzzle device to shorten the gun a little more but haven't decided yet.

The other mod I'm putting on basically all my first line guns is sig's fairly newish mlok bayonet mount that doubles as an extremely good hand/barrier stop.

As a "pdw" it's a little more unwieldy than desirable but hangs nicely under my goretex and other winter jackets.

There will come a point after the brace ruling comes out where I'll likely be replacing the pistol tube with a not stock cheek rest that's 2-2.5 inches long and maybe has adjustable cheek piece... I have a 3d printer I might as well use it after all!

I still love the gun and it's still immensely useful no matter how frustrating this is.

As far as you being a 30 cal guy, I do understand that and there's a degree to which I agree.

However in the current year with current ammunition selections I have this gun matched with ammo that will more than do what I need (to include violently fragmenting to well past 230 meters)

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

30-Oct

roguetechie said:

I have my foxtrot Mike fm15 with 11.5" barrel and it formerly had a folding brace until the ruling news picked up steam. Now it has a shorty pistol length about 4 inch buffer tube with no adjustable stock compatibility and I've been using it as a cheek pdw

Whats the overall length with the 11.5" and short buffer tube?

stancrist

From: stancrist

31-Oct

roguetechie said:

The extra 4.25 inches doesn't affect my use case since with the cheek shooting technique, which I'm taking to quite well, combined with holosun paralow circle dot and flip to side magnifier I'm still more than capable of center mass shooting to 300 meters even on the move.

Impressive.  I had no idea that it was possible to shoot that well with this method.

roguetechie said:

The other mod I'm putting on basically all my first line guns is sig's fairly newish mlok bayonet mount that doubles as an extremely good hand/barrier stop.

A bayonet mount is an intriguing choice for that purpose.  Care to elaborate why?

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

31-Oct

Right around 26" total with the tube just under 21 from the tip of FH to back of vertical pic rail on rear of receiver.

I could go with a guntec 3.5" tube and switch from a thordsen pic adapter to the Sylvan arms one to cut like 2 more inches off without much issue but it's already a pretty small and maneuverable device as it sits.

Getting rid of the no no accessory, going to the thordsen over the Midwest industries buffer tube hinge, and potentially going to a much lighter "Gucci" flip to side mount brings it back down to around 5.5 pounds or just a little more empty.

This all depends on whether or not I currently have one of my experimental recoil reducers in at the time or not. I've been playing with several things to see what can be done.

It's an incredibly fun little gun all around that I wouldn't feel under armed with in most situations.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

31-Oct

So Stan,

Because it's a short gun even for somebody on the smaller side like me (5'8") having a hand stop and a barrier rest is important if for no other reason than to just get consistent hand placement etc so I can set up my crane switch somewhere and know I can actuate it.

Also, I kinda just like bayonets?

So when you really like bayonets but your entire stable of "first line guns" lack both bayonet lugs and the naked real estate uncovered by handguard below the bbl, it kinda almost makes sense if you squint?

Plus, it drives certain purist types crazy which makes it almost worth doing all on it's own to be perfectly honest.

There's a degree to which I like to keep my stable of primary guns set up and equipped similar enough that I reliably know where my stuff is placed too but on the foxtrot Mike it's really just a matter of I needed something similar to this, didn't want to put a kag grip on like everyone else, and I just like bayonets Because they're kinda cool.

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