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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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PDW again   Small Arms <20mm

Started 20/12/20 by DavidPawley; 145072 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

31-Oct

roguetechie said:

The extra 4.25 inches doesn't affect my use case since with the cheek shooting technique, which I'm taking to quite well, combined with holosun paralow circle dot and flip to side magnifier I'm still more than capable of center mass shooting to 300 meters even on the move.

Impressive.  I had no idea that it was possible to shoot that well with this method.

roguetechie said:

The other mod I'm putting on basically all my first line guns is sig's fairly newish mlok bayonet mount that doubles as an extremely good hand/barrier stop.

A bayonet mount is an intriguing choice for that purpose.  Care to elaborate why?

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

31-Oct

Right around 26" total with the tube just under 21 from the tip of FH to back of vertical pic rail on rear of receiver.

I could go with a guntec 3.5" tube and switch from a thordsen pic adapter to the Sylvan arms one to cut like 2 more inches off without much issue but it's already a pretty small and maneuverable device as it sits.

Getting rid of the no no accessory, going to the thordsen over the Midwest industries buffer tube hinge, and potentially going to a much lighter "Gucci" flip to side mount brings it back down to around 5.5 pounds or just a little more empty.

This all depends on whether or not I currently have one of my experimental recoil reducers in at the time or not. I've been playing with several things to see what can be done.

It's an incredibly fun little gun all around that I wouldn't feel under armed with in most situations.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

31-Oct

So Stan,

Because it's a short gun even for somebody on the smaller side like me (5'8") having a hand stop and a barrier rest is important if for no other reason than to just get consistent hand placement etc so I can set up my crane switch somewhere and know I can actuate it.

Also, I kinda just like bayonets?

So when you really like bayonets but your entire stable of "first line guns" lack both bayonet lugs and the naked real estate uncovered by handguard below the bbl, it kinda almost makes sense if you squint?

Plus, it drives certain purist types crazy which makes it almost worth doing all on it's own to be perfectly honest.

There's a degree to which I like to keep my stable of primary guns set up and equipped similar enough that I reliably know where my stuff is placed too but on the foxtrot Mike it's really just a matter of I needed something similar to this, didn't want to put a kag grip on like everyone else, and I just like bayonets Because they're kinda cool.

stancrist

From: stancrist

31-Oct

roguetechie said:

I kinda just like bayonets?

A good enough reason.  sunglasses

roguetechie said:

Plus, it drives certain purist types crazy which makes it almost worth doing all on it's own to be perfectly honest.

Heh, heh.  Purists have no sense of humor.

Although I must say, putting a bayonet on an AR15 pistol makes about as much sense as a bayonet on an UZI SMG.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

31-Oct

Yes, I'll admit it made much more sense with the folding multi position tailhook mod2 but it's still something about car15 sized and could In theory be used for stab poke prod operations not that this is something I realistically envision needing. 

But I'll definitely put it on for taking pictures and messing around while out shooting sometimes.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

1-Nov

Since its a compact PDW, you gotta try and track down one of the Kel Tec folding bayonets:

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

1-Nov

roguetechie said:

Right around 26" total with the tube just under 21 from the tip of FH to back of vertical pic rail on rear of receiver. I could go with a guntec 3.5" tube and switch from a thordsen pic adapter to the Sylvan arms one to cut like 2 more inches off without much issue but it's already a pretty small and maneuverable device as it sits. Getting rid of the no no accessory, going to the thordsen over the Midwest industries buffer tube hinge, and potentially going to a much lighter "Gucci" flip to side mount brings it back down to around 5.5 pounds or just a little more empty.

Length wise, not much savings over a bullpup like a Tavor or AUG. But weight wise, 5.5lb is wayyyyy lighter. Your setup would definitely be nicer to have slung. 

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

1-Nov

The thing I saved over a bullpup was $ mostly.

I got my fm15 when they were still $599 (they're now $899) $730 including transfer etc.

Spent about $275 on brace and folder adapter which I got the brace cost back when I sold. 

Then about another $110 for shorty tube and fixed adapter.

So depending on how you count it I'm at around $850 not including optics etc which is less than a keltec rdb, the cheapest bullpup on the market which I don't think even comes in a 16" bbl version.

As currently fully equipped I'm at less than the price of most bullpups.

That was honestly the draw of going this way as a backpack gun.

It's light handy convenient and shoots well.

nincomp

From: nincomp

3-Dec

An interesting video showing Ian from Forgotten Weapons using a stocked pistol as a PDW, or  "Universal Service Weapon" as he calls it, at a 2-gun match.

Spoilers: It did not work as well as expected, partly because his red dot sight had too much parallax for long range shooting.  The accuracy of the tilting-barrel pistol itself was also too poor for accurate shooting at longer ranges.

Conclusion: This stocked pistol is more accurate than a typical pistol but cannot replace a carbine, even a pistol-caliber-carbine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nf4rk6Dai0

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

4-Dec

Great video. Best I've seen on the USW concept.

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