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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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armour piercing ammunition   Ammunition <20mm

Started 28-Dec by graylion; 3003 views.
smg762

From: smg762

30-Dec

Like I said the round I proposed is no larger than the 10mm.  With a carefully designed grip it would be just as comfortable as a 9mm handgun. 

A jacketed penetrator would need a caliber of 6mm or higher.  The recoil would be awful in a light PDW, and trajectory would be very poor beyond 200m.

  at 300m,  A 5mm bullet would have far more energy than a 6mm.  so the lethality you are looking for would be better with 5mm. 

Or you could use a round like the 6.5 cbj. It has a sabot and  you would want a 4.5mm bullet inside.  This would outperform everything but sabots can have accuracy problema

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

30-Dec

Yeah the vbr b rounds did it but the EPR does it better.

I agree with max on balanced recoil.

The good thing though is that a schv 1300 joule ME cartridge should be pretty easy to make controllable.

The colt scamp design is an interesting design as far as this too.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

30-Dec

No, there's not an argument for high mass lower velocity projectiles to induce blunt trauma behind armor... 

Modern level 4 plates are hard ceramic with uhmwpe backer specifically because uhmwpe is a freakishly good energy sponge and can soak up and spread out unholy amounts of kinetic energy.

If that approach was even close to workable we wouldn't have videos like the one with the combat medic who got poleaxed with a b61 at fairly close to point blank range from a dragunov and was up and moving so fast that he actually treated the sniper who hit him with the b61 after his squadmates shot him.

graylion

From: graylion

30-Dec

smg762 said:

Like I said the round I proposed is no larger than the 10mm.  With a carefully designed grip it would be just as comfortable as a 9mm handgun. 

If you want good external ballistics you need a longer ogive, making the round longer and thus bigger.

In reply toRe: msg 44
nincomp

From: nincomp

30-Dec

Reading this and the current PDW thread, I am curious about the effects of blast from these relatively high-powered, short-barreled PDW's.  I have not used one of these weapons, so I can only speculate.  Since they will often be used by people who weren't expecting combat and probably won't be wearing hearing protection, I wonder if they will be stunned into inaction by their own muzzle blast.  It would seem that some sort of sound suppression might be particularly important for them.

smg762

From: smg762

30-Dec

A long ogive only starts to make a difference beyond 300m.  

A larger caliber would bleed energy by the time it hits the target at 150m or further.  Meaning how ever impressive your penetrator is,  it would not be travelling fast. 

The chances of opponents actually using level 4 armour or steel inserts is literally nil. 

Regarding suppressor,  it's a good idea but PDW rounds like the mars/4. 6x30 and others,  have very low flash in short barrels.  Noise is the problem,  but at the range u have ear protection

  • Edited 30 December 2020 14:45  by  smg762
nincomp

From: nincomp

30-Dec

But of course, the whole purpose of a PDW is use at places other than a range.

graylion

From: graylion

30-Dec

smg762 said:

A larger caliber would bleed energy by the time it hits the target at 150m or further.  Meaning how ever impressive your penetrator is,  it would not be travelling fast. 

You're not making sense. Caliber is irrelevant to range, shape and mass are.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

30-Dec

nincomp said:

Reading this and the current PDW thread, I am curious about the effects of blast from these relatively high-powered, short-barreled PDW's.  I have not used one of these weapons, so I can only speculate.

The P90 and MP7 have more blast then 9mm, but way less blast then a 14.5-16" 5.56. 

Notably, a 5.7x28 can use a suppressor built for .22lr's, whereas mounting that suppressor to a 5.56 rifle would destroy it due to increased blast and pressure.

Even a 4.75" barrel 5.7 can use a .22lr suppressor:

nincomp

From: nincomp

30-Dec

A significant issue is that a short PDW puts the muzzle closer to the user's face than a pistol being held at arm's length.  Would something as simple as a linear compensator be sufficient to permit the user to maintain sufficient hearing for situational awareness, or would a more complex sound suppressor be needed? 

Here I am assuming that the user would likely not be using hearing protection.  That may be a faulty assumption.

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