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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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armour piercing ammunition   Ammunition <20mm

Started 28-Dec by graylion; 3005 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

31-Dec

nincomp said:

A significant issue is that a short PDW puts the muzzle closer to the user's face than a pistol being held at arm's length.  Would something as simple as a linear compensator be sufficient to permit the user to maintain sufficient hearing for situational awareness, or would a more complex sound suppressor be needed?  Here I am assuming that the user would likely not be using hearing protection.  That may be a faulty assumption.

I'm not sure if it matters for a defensive weapon thats designed to be primarily carried and rarely used.

I recall firing a .357 without hearing protection. I never heard the shot - just instant 'eeee' ear ringing. The other shots didn't even register other then recoil. 

I suspect blast is more of an effect for those near you - say a driver of vehicle. At the shooting range, I find firing a rifle is fine - but being to the side of one is unpleasant even with ear protection. 

graylion

From: graylion

31-Dec

The loads that I develop routinely come out between 75 and 95 MPa muzzle pressure from a 10.5" barrel. Which is loud, but not as loud as for instance the FN FiveSeven pistol, which glocks in at around 135. If one uses the idea of a sideways magazine (although I'd do it on top like in the P90), there should be plenty of space for an integrated suppressor I would think.

  • Edited 31 December 2020 6:43  by  graylion
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

31-Dec

graylion said:

The loads that I develop routinely come out between 75 and 95 MPa muzzle pressure from a 10.5" barrel. Which is loud, but not as loud as for instance the FN FiveSeven pistol, which glocks in at around 135.

I think pressure is a factor for how the report sounds - bang vs boom vs crack!

But I believe gas volume / overall powder charge is a significant factor in report as well.

As an example, I think a 4" 9mm pistol (36kpsi 9mm NATO cartridge) almost certainly has a higher MPa exit pressure then a 20" 12 gauge shotgun (11.5kpsi or less buckshot) but the shotgun is still much louder.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

31-Dec

Some .22 rimfire suppressors  can handle 5.7x28. Check with the manufacturer!

graylion

From: graylion

31-Dec

you're probably right there. I am using around 18gr of a slow pistol powder

Red7272

From: Red7272

31-Dec

RovingPedant said:

Steel over tungsten for the core though. Aluminium or polymer “sabot”. Bonus points for making it biodegradable.

Or throw convention out the window and go with a ceramic tipped steel rod for the penetrator in a crushable 6 calibre VLD body with wings like the old arrowhead APCR projectiles. squeeze down to calibre and then have a smooth last part of the barrel to remove the rifling and reduce drag. Calibre could be something like 6.4 crushing to 5.6.

Low SD, high BC and massive MV. Range would still be medium to short but class IV armour defeat via multiple hits should be there as well as defeating all lower classes of soft and hard armour. 

RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

1-Jan

A squeezebore might work with a polymer jacket.

If you make the reduced bore section a muzzle device like the Littlejohn adaptor on the 2pdr. Possibly incorporated into a suppressor and you can switch between full bore and squeezebore suppressors to optimise for unarmoured or armoured targets. Firing non-squeezed projectiles would also reduce the danger area.

Considering the use, you would probably want to avoid having full-bore non squeezable projectiles.

Red7272

From: Red7272

1-Jan

RovingPedant said:

A squeezebore might work with a polymer jacket. If you make the reduced bore section a muzzle device like the Littlejohn adaptor on the 2pdr. Possibly incorporated into a suppressor and you can switch between full bore and squeezebore suppressors to optimise for unarmoured or armoured targets. Firing non-squeezed projectiles would also reduce the danger area. Considering the use, you would probably want to avoid having full-bore non squeezable projectiles.

The result would be a 6 calibre projectile that would yaw in soft tissue and do a passable job of trying to destroy ceramic armour plates. Apart from training, ball and AP versions of the round, with the only difficulty being a tracer round if one was required. 

graylion

From: graylion

1-Jan

And do telescoped ammo while we're at it ;)

Red7272

From: Red7272

1-Jan

graylion said:

And do telescoped ammo while we're at it ;)

Telescoped ammo doesn't work. This is relatively simple stuff that can be done now. Neckless polymer or a crimped neckless metal case would both work with the projectile. 

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