Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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German MK 411 und MK 413 aircraft cannons?   Aircraft Guns

Started 30-Jan by HZertner; 341 views.

From: HZertner


Does anyone ever heard of these two gun?

MK 411 - so called Motorkanone was designed in two calibres, 28 mm and 30 mm. No more info!
MK 413 - Motorkanone with three barrels from Krupp. No more info!

Perhaps just concepts or projects, but maybe one or the other has more information.



From: autogun


I have nothing on the MK 413 but this on the MK 411 (from my forthcoming book):

Motorkanone MK 411: 28 x 216B and 30 x ? ammunition

 A Krupp project initiated in 1941 for a motor cannon driven by the aircraft engine, and therefore presumably limited to use with vee-engines, with the gun fitting between the cylinder banks and firing through a hollow propeller hub. Two different calibres were planned: 2,8 cm and 3 cm.  The 28 x 216B cartridge is known, with at least two examples surviving. Nothing is known about the 3 cm cartridge, or about the gun, except that the 3 cm reportedly fired a 440 g HE-T at 900 m/s. The term “Gerät 411” is also used.


28 x 216B MK 411

This was developed by Krupp in the early 1940s for an aircraft motor cannon, which in this case means one driven by the engine. The cartridge resembled a scaled-up 20 x 138B and fired a 300 g projectile at 900 m/s. Very few examples are known, but both brass and steel-cased versions survive in the Woodin Laboratory (the latter is shown below). The brass cartridge case has the headstamp "aux 41 067" and the lacquered steel case has the headstamp "avu 1a 41". The steel case has a Luftwaffe acceptance marking. The round is 295 mm long overall.


From: DavidPawley


On the topic of your new book, have you found any further information on red king / red queen and the rk421 beyond what was in rapid fire 1st Ed.?

I find the early post war designs fascinating.


From: autogun


Nothing new on Red King/Queen since this was updated:

There is something extra on the Vigilante that I haven't got around to including in the article - it will be in the book.

Yes, the 1950s in particular were an interesting time. Such huge ambition to push the technological envelope.


From: HZertner


Thank you Tony,

more information than hoped.

I read about the MK 413 in an document, but only this name without any further information.